Eagle Arms Shows ban 80% receiver sales

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  • OneGunTex

    Escaped Member
    Jan 12, 2021
    232
    Southern Maryland, no longer
    At some point we are going to have to admit that it is a problem with prohibited people buying and using these guns on the street. I really can't blame the guy for not wanting to be part of criminals getting these things.

    so ban these kits because felons are using them? how bout we keep the f_cking felons in f_ucking jail and then we won't have f_ucking f_elons using guns in any form.



    and, define 'problem.' how many thousands if not tens of thousands if not more of these kits are out in circulation and how many have been used in crime? and how many have been used by repeat criminals that, if they were put and kept in jail, wouldn't have committed further crimes?

    So, let me be clear, I am opposed to all bans of inanimate objects. Full stop. This is a people problem.

    But I am honestly confused as to why I've seen opposition to expanded background checks? Isn't that how you keep felons from buying guns? I don't expect a criminal to tell a seller he's a criminal of his own accord.

    The only objection I've seen to expanded background checks is that it is the beginning of a registry. Which I get. But I'll guess that most folks on this forum have filled out a form at a gun shop at some point in time so isn't that a moot point?

    I'm honest to goodness asking what part of this I'm missing

    Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
     

    davsco

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 21, 2010
    8,607
    Loudoun, VA
    Isn't that how you keep felons from buying guns?

    you keep felons from committing further violence by keeping them in friggin jail. that's the only surefire way.

    catch and release, but we don't really trust them so we're going to inconvenience and infringe on the 99% of law-abiding citizens in a futile attempt to keep crims from doing more crime is BS, and the opposite of 'common sense.'
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,239
    Montgomery County
    Freedom to travel within the USA on horses and wagons in the late 1700s. The act of traveling is the same now, just the vehicle has changed.

    Why is operating a conveyance a privilege and not a right.

    The parallels between firearms and conveyances are incontrovertible.

    A lot of those conveyance-operating wagon drivers would be sure to correct you on some aspects of that. Like, every time they paid to use a bridge or a ferry or one of many toll roads if they didn't feel like roughing it across a ford ten miles out of their way. That sort of infrastructure wasn't free to create and maintain then, and isn't now. Now, pulling your wagon across the prairie? Yeah, different. None of that isn't somebody's property, now. Point is, the circumstances of the 1700s and today's publicly paid-for and policed roads are apples and oranges, not counting 18th century toll roads/bridges/ferries. And some towns would definitely - for long centuries - have plenty to say about how you "operated" your horse or ox-cart on public ways.
     

    noddaz

    bonehead
    Jan 9, 2014
    529
    Arnold
    iu
     

    rseymorejr

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 28, 2011
    26,015
    Harford County
    I sent the promoters an Email expressing my feelings on this. Below is my Email and the response FYI.

    Hello Bob,

    The owner of Eagle Arms is working on a resolution with the vendors of the 80% ghost guns. Currently, our top supplier of the 80% kits will sell to anyone, including minors. without any limits. Additionally, the vendor sells in bulk without any limitations. As a result, our shows have become a target for large crime organizations. Every week these ghost guns are found at crime scenes and traced back to our gun shows. We are hopeful that an agreement will be reached between the Gun Show owner and the vendors of the 80% kits.
    These kits should never fall into the hands of minors and/or criminals. A compromise will be reached so that all involved parties needs are met.
    Thank you

    P.S. don’t believe the HYPE!


    On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 9:30 PM bob wrote:
    I just heard about your new policy banning the sale of 80% receivers at your shows.
    The very few criminals who may want to go through the work to finish an 80% lower don't justify your banning of these parts. That's the same argument anti-gun people use: we need to ban something because a small minority of criminals may take advantage of it. The have a company that is supposed to promote guns and gun rights use the same emotional ******** arguments that our political enemies use is disgusting. I went to a small gunshow in PA on Saturday and I was planning on going to a few more this spring. Rest assured I won't be attending any that you are putting on. I don't like to financially support people and companies that work against my rights


    Sincerely
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,087
    Are you talking about me or the guy I spoke with at eagle arms?

    Neither, I was replying to his post where he replied to an Industry Partner, an FFL that goes to these shows and is probably on a first name basis with the promoter.
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,087
    I must be naive as blazes. If you bought firearms through an ffl, if you are still buying them through ffl (now all purchases are to be done that way in Maryland and feds got it through the House Pelosiland)), you are “on the books”. You are labeled a gun owner and if things get that bad they will tear your premises apart looking for anything they can find.

    We all want unpapered ‘stuff’ because big brother is becoming so contemptible. But face it, if things get that bad, we’ll be picking those ‘things’ up.

    Buy a firearm on a 4473 that stays in the possession of the dealer/FFL is a completely different animal than a database held by any level of .gov with your ownership information in it.

    If they only check one dealer/FFL, they only know what you bought there, if you purchased at more than one place, then they have no clue of the others. So, the .gov would have to spend an inordinate amount of time coalating what you bought and where to make sure they got everything.

    To equate a 4473 to a database is like comparing apples to oranges.
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    If you read the OP's story, according to the Philadelphia Police they confiscated 90 in 2019, 270 in 2020 and 80 so far this year.

    Would like to see their source. Have been keeping an eye on the 80%/"ghost gun" thing. There isn't normally a category specifically for "firearm made from 80% receiver", so usually guns with serial numbers ground off or those where the serial number could not be traced are added to the total. I don't doubt the are a few, but most available stats show the number is dwarfed by the 200K-400K firearms stolen every year, and unknown thousands obtained in other unlawful practices.
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,087
    So, let me be clear, I am opposed to all bans of inanimate objects. Full stop. This is a people problem.

    But I am honestly confused as to why I've seen opposition to expanded background checks? Isn't that how you keep felons from buying guns? I don't expect a criminal to tell a seller he's a criminal of his own accord.

    How does this prevent felons from obtaining firearms from illegal means? MSP reports that over 85% of firearms recovered at crime scenes were NOT purchased from a gunshow or an FFL/dealer, but where stolen.

    The only objection I've seen to expanded background checks is that it is the beginning of a registry. Which I get. But I'll guess that most folks on this forum have filled out a form at a gun shop at some point in time so isn't that a moot point?

    I'm honest to goodness asking what part of this I'm missing

    Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

    Felons don't follow laws, why would they follow this one, and how would it prevent them from obtaining firearms in a back alley deal with another felon?
     

    Ammo Jon

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 3, 2008
    20,787
    A lot of those conveyance-operating wagon drivers would be sure to correct you on some aspects of that. Like, every time they paid to use a bridge or a ferry or one of many toll roads if they didn't feel like roughing it across a ford ten miles out of their way. That sort of infrastructure wasn't free to create and maintain then, and isn't now. Now, pulling your wagon across the prairie? Yeah, different. None of that isn't somebody's property, now. Point is, the circumstances of the 1700s and today's publicly paid-for and policed roads are apples and oranges, not counting 18th century toll roads/bridges/ferries. And some towns would definitely - for long centuries - have plenty to say about how you "operated" your horse or ox-cart on public ways.

    Not to mention how hard is was to keep everyone in the wagon fed while maintaining a moderate pace, stopping to fix a wagon wheel, a thief steals 16 pairs of clothes and Jane dies of typhoid before you even reach halfway through the trail!
     

    Brute

    Unwitting Accomplice
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2020
    877
    Laurel
    Not to mention how hard is was to keep everyone in the wagon fed while maintaining a moderate pace, stopping to fix a wagon wheel, a thief steals 16 pairs of clothes and Jane dies of typhoid before you even reach halfway through the trail!

    You have died of dysentery. Thanks for playing Oregon Trail!
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,087
    The BATFE has specific rules on firearm serialization right down to the font size.

    I think what he meant is that there is no serial number issuing authority, at least not at the federal level. There are states that require them and have the state police issue the serial number (as well as register it in their database along with every other firearm they register (i.e. California)).

    Font size and depth apply to manufacturers, importers and those filing form 1's. They do not apply to the individual making his own firearm for his own use, nor are they required to be followed when said individual is tired of his self built firearm and sells it.
     

    babalou

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 12, 2013
    16,020
    Glenelg
    Uh no

    Freedom to travel within the USA on horses and wagons in the late 1700s. The act of traveling is the same now, just the vehicle has changed.

    Why is operating a conveyance a privilege and not a right.

    The parallels between firearms and conveyances are incontrovertible.

    I see 2A in COTUS but not conveyance. Do you have the right to drive a car? No. Right to bear arms? Yes. Not Bill of privileges. Bill of Rights
     

    whistlersmother

    Peace through strength
    Jan 29, 2013
    8,948
    Fulton, MD
    I see 2A in COTUS but not conveyance. Do you have the right to drive a car? No. Right to bear arms? Yes. Not Bill of privileges. Bill of Rights

    Oi.

    COTUS doesn't outline the rights we have, but rather specifically tells gov what it may or may not do.

    4A - gov needs a warrant
    5A - can't compel testimony against oneself
    1A - no law abridging free speech
    2A - can't infringe on right to bear arms

    COTUS is a restriction on gov. It doesn't give rights that the people don't already possess.
     

    possumman

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 13, 2011
    3,203
    Pikesville Md
    I sent the promoters an Email expressing my feelings on this. Below is my Email and the response FYI.

    Hello Bob,

    The owner of Eagle Arms is working on a resolution with the vendors of the 80% ghost guns. Currently, our top supplier of the 80% kits will sell to anyone, including minors. without any limits. Additionally, the vendor sells in bulk without any limitations. As a result, our shows have become a target for large crime organizations. Every week these ghost guns are found at crime scenes and traced back to our gun shows. We are hopeful that an agreement will be reached between the Gun Show owner and the vendors of the 80% kits.
    These kits should never fall into the hands of minors and/or criminals. A compromise will be reached so that all involved parties needs are met.
    Thank you

    P.S. don’t believe the HYPE!


    On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 9:30 PM bob wrote:
    I just heard about your new policy banning the sale of 80% receivers at your shows.
    The very few criminals who may want to go through the work to finish an 80% lower don't justify your banning of these parts. That's the same argument anti-gun people use: we need to ban something because a small minority of criminals may take advantage of it. The have a company that is supposed to promote guns and gun rights use the same emotional ******** arguments that our political enemies use is disgusting. I went to a small gunshow in PA on Saturday and I was planning on going to a few more this spring. Rest assured I won't be attending any that you are putting on. I don't like to financially support people and companies that work against my rights


    Sincerely
    How is anything traced back to his gunshow???
     

    TapRackBang

    Cheaper Than Diamonds
    Jan 14, 2012
    1,919
    Bel Air
    I sent the promoters an Email expressing my feelings on this. Below is my Email and the response FYI.
    [...]
    "The owner of Eagle Arms is working on a resolution with the vendors of the 80% ghost guns."

    Eagle Arms is using the language of the gun-grabbing extremists?

    I don't think I'm going to go to any of their shows. :sad20:
     

    TapRackBang

    Cheaper Than Diamonds
    Jan 14, 2012
    1,919
    Bel Air
    Oi.
    COTUS doesn't outline the rights we have, but rather specifically tells gov what it may or may not do.
    [...]
    COTUS is a restriction on gov. It doesn't give rights that the people don't already possess.
    So many people don't get this. They've swallowed the "driving is a privilege!" kool-aid and think the gov grants privileges.
    U.S. Civics 101: It does not. Our schools have utterly failed us.
     

    ST19AG_WGreymon

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 16, 2009
    2,405
    Odenton
    I'm up for the 30-minute Polymer80 challenge. I'll time myself with some basic hand tools and see if I can get a running P80 in 30 minutes.
     

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