Any m1917 or 1903 loaders in here?

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  • shocker998md

    Ultimate Member
    May 29, 2009
    1,357
    Snow Hill MD
    I'm looking to see what people are using powder and projectile wise for two very different loads.
    1. Low recoil 100 yard plinking. Think kids, long strings of fun slow fire going over shooting positions.

    2. Full strength accuracy on paper, bonus points if there's a gameking equivalent to get them back in the field during deer season.

    It these times of thin supply id rather see what pet loads are out there instead of playing with everything.
     

    atblis

    Ultimate Member
    May 23, 2010
    2,011
    H4895 One of few rifle powders that can be safety downloaded

    No need to get exotic with bullets. 168s are cheap and we'll get you out to 600 yards no problem.
     

    JohnC

    Active Member
    May 29, 2019
    311
    Baltimore, MD
    Yes to both. Never had any luck with H4895 downloads and accuracy.

    Check out Speer 125 TnTs. I can PM you a recipe for Varget, 4895 or 4064. The TNTs leave a little copper in my m1917 bore, but they are very soft shooting and really accurate. I honestly use the TnTs for most of my shooting. They're cheap and decent. For real accuracy work they're fine up to 200 yards.

    I also like the PPU 150gr M2 projectiles. They're decent, but hard to come by recently.
     

    shocker998md

    Ultimate Member
    May 29, 2009
    1,357
    Snow Hill MD
    Yes to both. Never had any luck with H4895 downloads and accuracy.

    Check out Speer 125 TnTs. I can PM you a recipe for Varget, 4895 or 4064. The TNTs leave a little copper in my m1917 bore, but they are very soft shooting and really accurate. I honestly use the TnTs for most of my shooting. They're cheap and decent. For real accuracy work they're fine up to 200 yards.

    I also like the PPU 150gr M2 projectiles. They're decent, but hard to come by recently.

    Please on the 4064 recipes, I've stocked up on that for my garand, and figure that would be nice to just vonsider it the 30 cal go to powder.
     

    ken792

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 2, 2011
    4,480
    Fairfax, VA
    My 03 likes a 175gr Nosler Custom Comp with 46.9gr of IMR 4064 and my 03A3 likes a 155gr Nosler Custom Comp with 46.7gr of IMR 4064 from the current powder lot I’m using for those.

    For low recoil that also makes it to 200yd quickly without too much wind effects, look into a 125gr Speer with 50ish grains of the 4895s, 4064s, or RL-15. That’s a popular Camp Perry load.

    You can also do a 110gr M1 Carbine bullet with 50ish grains of those powders.

    For really light loads, look at a cast or jacketed bullet with a small charge of a pistol powder. “The Load” is 13gr of Red Dot with a 150ish grain cast bullet in most military calibers. People also replicate the various gallery and guard cartridges.

    https://forum.castbulletassoc.org/thread/1387-the-load-is-13-grains-of-red-dot/

    https://castbulletassoc.org/blog/ar...d-gallery-practice-loads-with-bullseye-powder
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    For bolt guns, I would look at "The Load" from C.E. Lewis.

    Basically 13 grains of Red Dot behind an appropriate bullet. https://forum.castbulletassoc.org/t...is fully comparable,bullet of the same weight.

    VERY low recoil. Works with cast or jacketed bullets.

    The Garand guys load the Speer TNT 125 with a typical Garand powder in the mid-40 grain range to cycle the action. It is lower recoil. And works well in bolt rifles also. LOTS of info over on CMP Forums about loading this bullet.
     

    Doco Overboard

    Ultimate Member
    For some reason I have found 4064 works the best as an average between quite a few of the same type of service rifles I shoot. At least the ones that are closer to an in-spec bore. Just at or slightly above a starting powder charge. Even in the Krags.
    4895 is next with some of them that have slightly more wear especially at the breech, usually with a firm crimp and just above a starting load.
    If I can get into a full string at a 7moa gong target from any field position @ 300 yards I'm not hard to keep happy anymore.
    Especially when reloading the rifle with strippers chargers or clips.
    Shocker I see your in Snow hill, I have a nice range near Federalsburg we can visit one day if you want. Its a little out of the way if you don't already have a place to stretch out some already.
    Earlier is better because light is better at the 300 yard butts at least for me because I cant hardly see anymore.
     

    boule

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 16, 2008
    1,948
    Galt's Gulch
    For some reason I have found 4064 works the best as an average between quite a few of the same type of service rifles I shoot.

    Found the same - when using IMR 4064 and a bullet designed for the cartridge, most vintage military service cartridges in .30 caliber ended up in the 40gr-ish area for an accurate load.

    As far as the original problem goes - light load, long strings of shooting, little recoil wanted. This sounds like a typical "trail boss" problem.

    1) 110gr "M1 carbine" type plated bullet (Berrys for example), fill case up to 2/3 capacity with trail boss.

    2) 150gr plated or cast bullet around 150gr, 8-9gr titegroup, should be accurate out to 100yds
     

    atblis

    Ultimate Member
    May 23, 2010
    2,011
    I had really good luck with reduced H4895 with 168s in a Criterion barreled 1903A3. 10 shots easily in the X ring on the 100 yard CMP target. That gun is just oddly accurate in general. I remember the velocity variance being rather good too.

    I've had very good luck with trail boss as well but the thing is one powder will do both of the things you want. Though the trail boss you can reduce even further.
     

    JohnC

    Active Member
    May 29, 2019
    311
    Baltimore, MD
    For bolt guns, I would look at "The Load" from C.E. Lewis.

    Basically 13 grains of Red Dot behind an appropriate bullet. https://forum.castbulletassoc.org/t...is fully comparable,bullet of the same weight.

    VERY low recoil. Works with cast or jacketed bullets.

    The Garand guys load the Speer TNT 125 with a typical Garand powder in the mid-40 grain range to cycle the action. It is lower recoil. And works well in bolt rifles also. LOTS of info over on CMP Forums about loading this bullet.

    Please note: the following is intended for reference only. Work up any and all loads for your rifle. If you blow yourself up, it is not my fault.

    47.5gr of 4064, Varget or 4895 is a perfect starting point with a Speer TNT. Seated to 3.15 COAL with a standard WLR or CCI200 primer. Fiddle around +\- a few tenths of a grain to find the sweet spot. Shoots a hair over 2MOA In a garand and 1.5 MOA in a 1917 or 1903A3. Most if not all old US service rifles shoot best with a flat base projectile in my experience. The Speer TNT is perfect for shooting up to 200 yards- haven’t tried my loads past that!
     

    shocker998md

    Ultimate Member
    May 29, 2009
    1,357
    Snow Hill MD
    Well if "the load" uses red dot I may be able to work something up with the few lbs of green dot I have laying around.

    The titegroup load sounds interesting since thats my go to pistol powder. So I have a great stock of it.

    Seems like there's a dozen ways to skin the cat on this, I'll read over on the CMP, I always like comming here first.

    Doco, the Marines pulled me away in 2005 but I should be comming back this time next year for a few years. It looks like there may be four of us now on the forum from the lower shore. I too have access to land to shoot, 0-1k plus. It will be nice to know some local reloaders and shooters when I come back.
     

    8milimeter

    RICHARD (dino)
    Feb 15, 2009
    486
    Frederick, Md
    If you can find any IMR SR 4759
    24.5 to 25 gr behind any 150 bullet give amazing results in a any 1903
    Recoil like shooting an AR. My personal best at a CMP match 200-16x slow prone.

    1917 use a 125g bullet and 49.0 4064

    Deer load 165gr and a max load of imr4350. This works well in most 30-06 barrels.
    I use a 165 Sierra Game King and 56.6g IMR4350
     
    Last edited:

    noahhh

    Active Member
    Jan 28, 2009
    254
    Arnold,Md
    An area I've had about 50 years experience in: downloading .30-06's. Here's a synopsis.

    1. Backyard plinker - 155 grain plain base cast bullet, 6-8gr. Red Dot or Bullseye. Good for out to 100 yards of pure unadulterated fun. (Don't substitute a 150 jacketed bullet for you might stick one in the bore. Ask me how I know.) A sack full of these and a pile of empty beer cans equals more fun than you can have anywhere except in the bedroom.

    2. 150-200 grain gas checked cast bullet, and anywhere from 18 to 24 grains SR-4759 depending on the gun and bullet, if you have some 4759 (I'm sitting on about 25 pounds of it). I've killed deer cleanly with a 190 FN cast bullet and 20 grains 4759. My 03A1 USMC sniper clone with Criterion barrel and 8x Unertl returns sub-MOA accuracy all day with a 170 cast bullet + 18 grains 4759.

    3. 165 Sierra BTHP, either 40 gr. 4064 or 4895. Supremely accurate in every '03 I've shot it in, recoil is nil, but skating close to the bottom end of safe powder charges with those two so don't go any lower. I've shot maybe 1000 of the 4064 loads over the last 30 years. I cooked up the load originally in order to tame a 6 1/2 pound Mauser sporter .30-06 that is downright brutal with factory equivalent stuff. Velocity is right at 2350fps which makes it pretty dangerous for deer (ask me how I know) yet very easy/mild on an old arthritic shoulder.

    4. Standard .30-06 hunting load: 165 Sierra BTHP, 47gr. H-4895. Not as hot as a .30-06 can be made to go, but still fairly stout. Four years ago it dropped a massive Pennsylvania 10-point at a lasered 325 yards like someone stuck a broom handle in his spokes. (Pre-64 Model 70 delivered it.)

    5. Standard SHTF stockpile of Springfield/Garand fodder: 150 Sierra FMJ (and/or 150 Sierra SP), 46 or 47 grains H-4895 (depending on the brass and primer). What can I say about a load that replicates Ball M2? I rid myself of the AR .223 because an M1 or Springfields can apply their own brand of "shock and awe", and they talked me into it. (I heard a lot of satisfied chuckles from them the day I sold the AR.)
     

    Doco Overboard

    Ultimate Member
    An area I've had about 50 years experience in: downloading .30-06's. Here's a synopsis.

    1. Backyard plinker - 155 grain plain base cast bullet, 6-8gr. Red Dot or Bullseye. Good for out to 100 yards of pure unadulterated fun. (Don't substitute a 150 jacketed bullet for you might stick one in the bore. Ask me how I know.) A sack full of these and a pile of empty beer cans equals more fun than you can have anywhere except in the bedroom.

    2. 150-200 grain gas checked cast bullet, and anywhere from 18 to 24 grains SR-4759 depending on the gun and bullet, if you have some 4759 (I'm sitting on about 25 pounds of it). I've killed deer cleanly with a 190 FN cast bullet and 20 grains 4759. My 03A1 USMC sniper clone with Criterion barrel and 8x Unertl returns sub-MOA accuracy all day with a 170 cast bullet + 18 grains 4759.

    3. 165 Sierra BTHP, either 40 gr. 4064 or 4895. Supremely accurate in every '03 I've shot it in, recoil is nil, but skating close to the bottom end of safe powder charges with those two so don't go any lower. I've shot maybe 1000 of the 4064 loads over the last 30 years. I cooked up the load originally in order to tame a 6 1/2 pound Mauser sporter .30-06 that is downright brutal with factory equivalent stuff. Velocity is right at 2350fps which makes it pretty dangerous for deer (ask me how I know) yet very easy/mild on an old arthritic shoulder.

    4. Standard .30-06 hunting load: 165 Sierra BTHP, 47gr. H-4895. Not as hot as a .30-06 can be made to go, but still fairly stout. Four years ago it dropped a massive Pennsylvania 10-point at a lasered 325 yards like someone stuck a broom handle in his spokes. (Pre-64 Model 70 delivered it.)

    5. Standard SHTF stockpile of Springfield/Garand fodder: 150 Sierra FMJ (and/or 150 Sierra SP), 46 or 47 grains H-4895 (depending on the brass and primer). What can I say about a load that replicates Ball M2? I rid myself of the AR .223 because an M1 or Springfields can apply their own brand of "shock and awe", and they talked me into it. (I heard a lot of satisfied chuckles from them the day I sold the AR.)


    Thanks Noahhh,
    Why is it that you think SR4759 is no longer available?
    I never used it for any 30 cal choices but do elsewhere.

    3031 is another one that's good for cooking up some milsurp hand-loads.
    I use that for loading 303 and have in the past for some garand ammo.
    I actually picked up a few pounds a few months ago for loading some brit stuff so I was glad to have done that.
     

    8milimeter

    RICHARD (dino)
    Feb 15, 2009
    486
    Frederick, Md
    QUOTE: Why is it that you think SR4759 is no longer available?
    I never used it for any 30 cal choices but do elsewhere.

    Its discontinued, if you can find it anywhere let me know.

    8mm
     

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