The Importance of Magazine Rotation

SkiPatrolDude · Jun 3, 2021

fbi_surveillance_van said:
This seems like something that would appeal to people who overclean their firearms to the point of causing premature wear.

I do think it’s important to use your mags enough to be confident that they aren’t defective. Beyond that, train to clear malfunctions and get back in the fight. I’ve never been issued a firearm that didn’t malfunction occasionally (typically during training classes with heavy courses of fire and not as much cleaning time as probably should have happened). Maybe I’m lazy, but learning to deal with that seems more pragmatic than structuring my life around not having a malfunction ever.

^This.

I know more than a few people that do this. Trust me, I love my guns like they are children, but you simply do not need to get every single nook and cranny clean after shooting. Heck I rarely clean my guns between range sessions besides an occasional dry patch through the barrel and a basic wipe down on critical components and oil.

You also do not need to rotate your mags with any serious frequency.

Ever tried to load the last round in brand new Sig P320 mag? I am glad to see mine finally loosening up a bit.

GuitarmanNick · Jun 3, 2021

The only issues I have experienced with bad springs was with surplus mags for old guns. Replacing the springs has made them as good as new. I keep mags loaded for most of my defensive weapons. All have been tested for function and have proven 100% reliable. Range mags are stored separately and kept empty until just before a trip to the range. Once I decide what toys and ammo will be used, the mags are loaded and placed into the bag.

joppaj · Jun 3, 2021

FWIW, the one spring I had trouble with was a mag tube spring in a Mossy 500. I acquired the gun after the death of its long time owner and I have no idea how often he may have loaded and unloaded the gun. That spring was totally worn out.

teratos · Jun 3, 2021

babalou said:
Bruh that is eff’d up. Lolololol. Cannot unsee this

Check your inbox for the video...

trickg · Jun 3, 2021

Muleskinner said:
Spring fatigue? My stepson has a 1911 that was made in 1938. It was given to him by his grandfather a few years ago before his death. He got it issued to him in the Korean war. The magazines had never been unloaded since 1951. We took it to the range and the firearm fired and cycle flawlessly with ammo head stamp from 1943.. sorry, I just don't buy into that whole line of spring fatigue. I've never seen it happen although it might personally I'm not too concerned with it

I think that the "spring fatigue" thing is one of those myths that got started from well-meaning folks because on paper it sounds plausible, but in reality just never really amounts to much.

I did a thread in this last year where I had gotten some loaded 1911 magazines from my Mom that I know had been loaded up by my Dad prior to his passing in 1997, so they had been continually compressed for a minimum of 24 years. Of course they cycled 100%, even with the dust and grit that had gotten in there over time.

https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=250633

I'm pretty sure you responded to that thread as well, recounting your experience of magazines that had been loaded for 60+ years.

Likewise, guns typically contain springs under constant pressure - no one is replacing springs from their 100+ year old antique firearms unless they absolutely have to.

I have no idea where or when the "spring fatigue" myth got started, but it is just that - a myth.

rbird7282 · Jun 3, 2021

SkiPatrolDude said:
^This.

I know more than a few people that do this. Trust me, I love my guns like they are children, but you simply do not need to get every single nook and cranny clean after shooting. Heck I rarely clean my guns between range sessions besides an occasional dry patch through the barrel and a basic wipe down on critical components and oil.

You also do not need to rotate your mags with any serious frequency.

Ever tried to load the last round in brand new Sig P320 mag? I am glad to see mine finally loosening up a bit.

Spot on.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jimbobborg · Jun 3, 2021

I change out the recoil spring on one of my pistols every 5,000 rounds. I'm on my third spring. Since I've owned said pistol, I've used the same 5 magazines. Each magazine holds 20 rounds. I've shot at least 3,000 rounds with each magazine. I have not felt the need to change out the spring in any of them. Take that as you will.

Blaster229 · Jun 3, 2021

jimbobborg said:
I change out the recoil spring on one of my pistols every 5,000 rounds. I'm on my third spring. Since I've owned said pistol, I've used the same 5 magazines. Each magazine holds 20 rounds. I've shot at least 3,000 rounds with each magazine. I have not felt the need to change out the spring in any of them. Take that as you will.

We swapped out our P229 springs when we started seeing center spring expansion. When the one tiny spring that is wrapped inside the other twisted springs comes out the end and can puncture. Never paid attention to round count. Swapped barrels at 20k rounds.

trickg · Jun 3, 2021

Blaster229 said:
We swapped out our P229 springs when we started seeing center spring expansion. When the one tiny spring that is wrapped inside the other twisted springs comes out the end and can puncture. Never paid attention to round count. Swapped barrels at 20k rounds.

Am I missing something? I see two springs that are functionally identical.

wabbit · Jun 3, 2021

I suspect the OP is a new shooter and is susceptible to these types of myths. Anyone with some experience shooting will know this is far fetched B.S.

trickg · Jun 3, 2021

wabbit said:
I suspect the OP is a new shooter and is susceptible to these types of myths. Anyone with some experience shooting will know this is far fetched B.S.

It didn't read like he's a new shooter. Maybe Gecko45, but not a new shooter.

Virgil Co.C · Jun 3, 2021

Never had a feed issue due to a spring but off topic what is the consensus on dry firing or not . I always snap cap fire( most the time with a cap). Old wise tale or not ? Decock by dry fire ? Some of my handguns have decocker and just general question for any firearm. I’ve heard people adamant both ways . Curios about others, as I said I never leave anything cocked/ charged if that’s correct terminology.Aware about firing pin but there are variables depending type just asking in general.

Pinecone · Jun 3, 2021

SkiPatrolDude said:
Ever tried to load the last round in brand new Sig P320 mag? I am glad to see mine finally loosening up a bit.

Try the last round in a P365 mag.

NOT easy, even with an Uplula

Pinecone · Jun 3, 2021

joppaj said:
FWIW, the one spring I had trouble with was a mag tube spring in a Mossy 500. I acquired the gun after the death of its long time owner and I have no idea how often he may have loaded and unloaded the gun. That spring was totally worn out.

I ought to check mine.

It has been loaded probably close to 30 years.

Pinecone · Jun 3, 2021

trickg said:
I think that the "spring fatigue" thing is one of those myths that got started from well-meaning folks because on paper it sounds plausible, but in reality just never really amounts to much.

It sounds plausible to people that really don't know.

Typically when these threads happen, the engineers and materials science people explain why it is wrong.

Pinecone · Jun 3, 2021

trickg said:
Am I missing something? I see two springs that are functionally identical.

Look at the diameter of the left most coil.

The lower one is larger.

JohnnyE · Jun 3, 2021

trickg said:
I think that the "spring fatigue" thing is one of those myths that got started from well-meaning folks because on paper it sounds plausible, but in reality just never really amounts to much.

I did a thread in this last year where I had gotten some loaded 1911 magazines from my Mom that I know had been loaded up by my Dad prior to his passing in 1997, so they had been continually compressed for a minimum of 24 years. Of course they cycled 100%, even with the dust and grit that had gotten in there over time.

https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=250633

I'm pretty sure you responded to that thread as well, recounting your experience of magazines that had been loaded for 60+ years.

Likewise, guns typically contain springs under constant pressure - no one is replacing springs from their 100+ year old antique firearms unless they absolutely have to.

I have no idea where or when the "spring fatigue" myth got started, but it is just that - a myth.

Let's add another layer to our understanding.

In every engine-powered vehicle there are valve springs that come close to coil-bind when a valve is fully opened. When an engine is shut off, there will be a valve or two that is nearly or fully opened, leaving its spring nearly or fully compressed. It stays that way until the next time the engine is started.

Oh, and over one hundred thousand miles, each valve spring will have been cycled perhaps a billion times. Even at that point, the springs maintain sufficient tension to prevent valve float at redline.

Most of us have said it in a variety of ways: springs can be designed and manufactured to survive incredibly hard lives and keep on keeping on.

Biggfoot44 · Jun 3, 2021

Took me a few minutes to remember the gentleman's name . Then I wrote most of a post , but fell asleep before hitting " post " button .

Mike Izumi - LFI graduate , wrote a few articles in gunzines . In his Day Job , he's a Metallurgical Engineer . He once wrote a feature article on Spring Fatigue ( IIRC for Am Handgunner , but you could likely find it on the internet .

The Gist included -

Springs fatigue from Cycling .

Virgin springs will take an initial set , but after that , they can remain compressed essentially indefinitely w/o ill effects .

************************

There are numerous print and internet accounts to the effect of :

After Dad/ Granddad/ Great Granddad/ etc passed away , we discovered his 1911 / full gun rig including his 1911 that had been in the attic/ storage room/ sock drawer fully loaded since he put it there in 1918 . So we thought it would be interesting to Test fire it . ( Sometimes cleaning and fresh lube on the gun , sometimes not .)

All such accounts I've read concluded with " and it worked " . More recent such accounts started having sluggish and inconsistent near 100. Year old ammunition , but no problems with guns or magazines with fresh ammo .

***************************8

While Magazine rotation is a 99.999% non- issue , Ammunition Rotation IS a valid concept .

E.Shell · Jun 3, 2021

Biggfoot44 said:
... All such accounts I've read concluded with " and it worked "...

Of course "...it worked", no one is going to admit their Grandpa left them a dysfunctional piece of crap for a legacy.

trickg · Jun 4, 2021

Pinecone said:
Look at the diameter of the left most coil.

The lower one is larger.

And...? I’m still not sure how that makes it functionally inferior given where it is in the gun and the role it plays.

The Importance of Magazine Rotation

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