Ballistic calculators

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  • Sticky

    Beware of Dog
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 16, 2013
    4,501
    AA Co
    Okay, so I don't keep hijacking threads, thought I'd put this one here for discussion.

    A recent trip to PNTC showed me that my dope was pretty far off according to BallisticAE, which is what I had been using to calculate exterior ballistics. I also have the Hornady 4DOF app on my phone and Shooter, so after I was done, I went back in and compared the data and dialups between the three apps I have and BallisticAE was giving me dialups less than the other two, which both were very close to each other and I 'think', much closer to reality, my shots were impacting low, so I had to dialup a lot more than it was telling me.

    I also just downloaded Applied Ballistics mobile, so I can use their doppler data on the Bergers that I am loading for target and hunting (both 168's, different boolits tho). It also pretty much agrees with Hornady and Shooter, given the standard input data and no tweaking needed.

    Now I just need to see who is right? :lol2:

    Berger 168 Hybrid Target and 2965fps out of a 300wsm at a 950yd target (the actual target was 945, but my dope was set in 25yd increments).

    BallisticAE tells me to dial up 18.36

    Shooter tells me to dial up 24.6

    Hornady 4DOF using a similar Hornady 168 bthp match bullet says dial up 25.96

    Applied Ballistics is saying dial up 24.25

    The three besides the Hornady app are all setup to run a G7 BC using the data from Berger for that specific bullet (or the doppler data on the AB app), so I tend to trust them over the Hornady, since it's not a factory loading at all.. buut the BallisticsAE data is way off from the other two.

    We'll see how things shake up next time I get a chance to wring this rifle out at distance.
     

    ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,500
    God's Country
    Some parameters in Ballistic AE is not correct. There are a lot of parameters in that software you could have inadvertently changed the firing angle, the coefficient or even something like scope height.
     

    smokey

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    31,412
    The hornady app seems pretty awesome. You can set up saved profiles for every variable and then just plug in what you need. For example, here's the 110gr 300blk hornady black load out of my 8.5" and 16". It allows you to control for everything to include height over bore, shooting angle, pressure, humidity, wind speed and angle, temp...etc.
     

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    Sticky

    Beware of Dog
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 16, 2013
    4,501
    AA Co
    The hornady app seems pretty awesome. You can set up saved profiles for every variable and then just plug in what you need. For example, here's the 110gr 300blk hornady black load out of my 8.5" and 16". It allows you to control for everything to include height over bore, shooting angle, pressure, humidity, wind speed and angle, temp...etc.
    Yes, but... can it work up data for other than hornady ammo? I have not really played with it much yet. All of the apps I have utilize those variables and ToolAA is right, I think I have something out of whack, but I have not figured it out and I really don't want to have to 'tweak' it much to get it right.. It's simple... BC and velocity equates to trajectory. It shouldn't be so clouded.

    Heck, I ran the old Sierra ballistics software from 5 1/4" floppies back in the day for my ol trust 25-06 and it was spot on out to 500 or so yards. :lol2:
     

    Sticky

    Beware of Dog
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 16, 2013
    4,501
    AA Co
    Here is the dope from BallisticAE and yes, the sight height is slightly different. I input it as 1.875" and it rounds it to 1.9". Is that enough to throw it off that much? I doubt it..
     

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    E.Shell

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 5, 2007
    10,245
    Mid-Merlind
    I see '1,200' as your physical altitude...what about the parameters in your other software?

    Another 'switch' in the software that will change things is whether to use density altitude.
     

    Sticky

    Beware of Dog
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 16, 2013
    4,501
    AA Co
    I see '1,200' as your physical altitude...what about the parameters in your other software?

    Another 'switch' in the software that will change things is whether to use density altitude.
    Ed, I was trying to get it close to reality, I was at Peacemaker and that was the approximate elevation there. I did dial it both without any atmosphere adjustments and the value for 950yds was 18.83moa (with default atmospheric conditions), still way low from the other solutions I have run with the other software that I have.

    I am going to uninstall and reinstall BallisticAE and see if it makes a difference and in the meantime I will lean towards the data I am getting from AB and see how it shakes out. It should be close. I could have tweaked a setting somewhere that is throwing my data off, but for the life of me I can't find it yet and I have rerun that setup several times with similar results.

    I am also going to reach out to those who are shooting at PTNC on the open days for non-members (or the LRC) to get more time behind the trigger with this gun. That is the most important part, putting lead on the target and getting more experience at the long range game.

    Thanks for the input!
     

    Sticky

    Beware of Dog
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 16, 2013
    4,501
    AA Co
    Okay, still not sure what was up with my readings before, but I deleted the saved favorites that I had for the 168 bergers and reran the numbers and now they are coming out correct for the HT and pretty much agree with the Applied Ballistics app data out to 1kyds.

    Now, to find a way to get back to PNTC again real soon to see how we fare this time around. Thanks for the input guys!
     

    JBoshoven

    Member
    May 30, 2021
    28
    Severn, MD
    I understand that you deleted the parameters and restarted and it "fixed" itself. I am not overly familiar with BallisticsAE but I noticed that in your post above, it included your zero temperature and the temp on the day you were shooting. Does the program correct your muzzle velocity for temp? If there was bogus data for muzzle velocity as a function of ammo temp, that could throw things off. In addition, I have found that my measured muzzle velocity as a function of ammo temperature never agree with what I find on the internet, etc.

    Jack
     

    Sticky

    Beware of Dog
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 16, 2013
    4,501
    AA Co
    I understand that you deleted the parameters and restarted and it "fixed" itself. I am not overly familiar with BallisticsAE but I noticed that in your post above, it included your zero temperature and the temp on the day you were shooting. Does the program correct your muzzle velocity for temp? If there was bogus data for muzzle velocity as a function of ammo temp, that could throw things off. In addition, I have found that my measured muzzle velocity as a function of ammo temperature never agree with what I find on the internet, etc.

    Jack
    Jack, I suspect it does but I don't know to what extent that would affect my numbers. I did go back and edit the atmospheric data to all default (59f, 78%rh and sea level) and it only added about 1/2moa to my 950 dialup, which is still about 6moa short. My numbers were way off for some strange reason and I really don't know what it was, but it's working pretty much correctly now.

    I went back and fine tuned the settings from AB and Ballistic AE just a little to dial in the various parameters and they now agree within .3moa at 950yds (the distance I happened to be shooting last when my marks were low) and all of the values are as exact as I can measure and set them, so I think I'm good.

    I will be playing with atmospheric conditions with the data, as that is important to me. It's hot, summer and I'm not shooting over 1500 or so ft elevation. My hunt will be in the mountains of Montana in cold weather, so I hope that the various programs I have will agree on the numbers when I change up the conditions.. we'll see!

    I'm really not using any data from the internet, I use various loading manuals data, data from a few trusted resources, pool that and narrow it down from there. Even load manuals all vary quite a bit, but I have been loading for a long time, so I have learned to wean out the extremes and focus on the basics and load from there. GRT has helped me a lot with some of the 'unknowns' that it can display, so I rely on that as well with load development. My velocities are from the chrono when I run the numbers.
     

    Sticky

    Beware of Dog
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 16, 2013
    4,501
    AA Co
    I use applied ballistics and I utilize the custom drag model that you pay for. I use it on my 123 and 139grn Lapua scenars and its dead on out to 1030
    That is exactly what I did to compare the AB data to the Ballistic AE data. I am shooting Berger 168HT's so that is the data that I am leaning towards.

    I'll likely shoot the next LRC if I can to get some more range time to prove my dope.
     

    Sticky

    Beware of Dog
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 16, 2013
    4,501
    AA Co
    Update... Things are progressing nicely, still a little long range tweaking to do with my dope for a couple of different loads, but.. on a whim I did a little research on Strelok and discovered that it's database of reticles, which is quite comprehensive, includes the Leupold long range varmint hunter reticle that I have on my scope, so I have now added it to my arsenal of ballistic calculators.

    I really like that I can play with the data and see the reticle view. This is a 2nd fp scope, so I can actually play with the power adjustment and see exactly the affect that it has on the sight picture. This is really helpful in the shorter (hunting out west) ranges out to 600yds or so, as I can dial my zero in at 200yds and use the varmint reticle to give me additional holdover crosshairs every hundred yds out to 600, no need to take the time to dial up if you don't have that luxury.

    The data is pretty much in line with my other programs, so we'll see how it works the end of the month in the next LRC at Peacemaker.
     

    ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,500
    God's Country
    Update... Things are progressing nicely, still a little long range tweaking to do with my dope for a couple of different loads, but.. on a whim I did a little research on Strelok and discovered that it's database of reticles, which is quite comprehensive, includes the Leupold long range varmint hunter reticle that I have on my scope, so I have now added it to my arsenal of ballistic calculators.

    I really like that I can play with the data and see the reticle view. This is a 2nd fp scope, so I can actually play with the power adjustment and see exactly the affect that it has on the sight picture. This is really helpful in the shorter (hunting out west) ranges out to 600yds or so, as I can dial my zero in at 200yds and use the varmint reticle to give me additional holdover crosshairs every hundred yds out to 600, no need to take the time to dial up if you don't have that luxury.

    The data is pretty much in line with my other programs, so we'll see how it works the end of the month in the next LRC at Peacemaker.


    After getting a Kestrel with AB I don’t use my phone apps anymore while at the range. However I do use them to analyze drop tables and print out dope charts and wind hold overs. I also agree that using the range finder features are really helpful in getting a better understanding of what specific size targets look like at distance.

    Strelock PRO does have a great reticle library, but Balastic AE allows you to upload a photo of ANY reticle and it will overlay that image onto is’s rangefinder tool. The reticle images are more defined in the Strelok app but I like the ease of use of Ballistic AE. You can change the target range, size, scope magnification and the wind speed all from the same screen.

    a4d159026d254cbe1301bc536eb278ca.jpg



    441ebf8cce9e5806f8d2de4e69016509.jpg
     

    Sticky

    Beware of Dog
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 16, 2013
    4,501
    AA Co
    I didn't know about the ability to upload a custom reticle with Ballistic AE, I haven't really had time to fully explore it, thanks!. I do use AB and have been relying more on that, but I really like the ability to upload a custom reticle, that is part of my short-term goal with this rifle and my upcoming hunt and learning to utilize the reticle in this scope to make the shots and not have to take the time to 'dial up'.

    We seem to have some common optics as well... ;)
     

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