Cz27 with Suppressor barrel

Interesting. Cant wait to see what the resident C&R gurus say!

Neat find! I'm into CZs but would have missed that one.

It's 100% legit as far as I can tell
All the marks are right, barrel looks right.
One thing to check is that the rifling is continuous all the way from chamber to muzzle (e.g. the extension isn't welded on).
There should be a notch in the bottom of muzzle, I think I can see that in one pic.

This is one of those unicorn pistols, to stumble across one like that is freaking awesome.
Well it would be more awesome if it was me but ... I'll live (and drool) vicariously through your find

somd_mustangs said:

It's 100% legit as far as I can tell
All the marks are right, barrel looks right.
One thing to check is that the rifling is continuous all the way from chamber to muzzle (e.g. the extension isn't welded on).
There should be a notch in the bottom of muzzle, I think I can see that in one pic.

This is one of those unicorn pistols, to stumble across one like that is freaking awesome.
Well it would be more awesome if it was me but ... I'll live (and drool) vicariously through your find

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it has it and I looked at rifling earlier and it did go all the way from what i seen

The one in Jan Still book also has the CZ logo on grips;
I can't remember what you said the S/N was on yours, so not sure if it's the same gun.
Anyway, the book is like $400+ nowadays so not gonna slap it on the scanner but will see if I can take a pic of that page

"Ain't nothing like the real thing, baby (etc etc)."

Congrats again on a tremendous find and glad it arrived safely! VERY hard to find CZ-27 variation and one that's on my WWII 'holy grail' pistol wish list. They do not come up for sale often and when they do they are far from cheap. Packed with history there regardless of what they were actually used for and just an all around unique and interesting WWII pistol. You certainly got a great score with that one!

From Jan Still "Axis Pistols - WW2 Commemorative Edition" (out of print for a number of years).

Note the lack of the front barrel "bushing" retainer found on a regular CZ-27.

BTW where did you find the number 4200 that were delivered?
I didn't think it was anywhere near that many, maybe a couple hundred.

KH195 said:

Congrats again on a tremendous find and glad it arrived safely! VERY hard to find CZ-27 variation and one that's on my WWII 'holy grail' pistol wish list. They do not come up for sale often and when they do they are far from cheap. Packed with history there regardless of what they were actually used for and just an all around unique and interesting WWII pistol. You certainly got a great score with that one!

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Thanks man

Oldcarjunkie said:

Thanks man

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Quite welcome, glad to see something that neat get a good home with a fellow MDS member! Just hope I get as lucky some day! Also tend to agree with somd_mustangs regarding production numbers, given the very infrequent appearances they seem make on the market 4200 seems high. Granted I don't have any of the books on the matter so can't speak to what's been published, but they really just don't come up that often so I would think the actual numbers were lower.

somd_mustangs said:

The one in Jan Still book also has the CZ logo on grips;
I can't remember what you said the S/N was on yours, so not sure if it's the same gun.
Anyway, the book is like $400+ nowadays so not gonna slap it on the scanner but will see if I can take a pic of that page

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somd_mustangs said:

From Jan Still "Axis Pistols - WW2 Commemorative Edition" (out of print for a number of years).

Note the lack of the front barrel "bushing" retainer found on a regular CZ-27.

BTW where did you find the number 4200 that were delivered?
I didn't think it was anywhere near that many, maybe a couple hundred.

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I found that listed on a CZ forum and it was linked to here..

http://www.detektorweb.cz/index.4me?s=show&i=9755&mm=1&vd=1

when translated...

"Pistol CZ 27 with long main and shock absorbers

If any of you dig a classic and all known pistol ČZ 27, which will have somewhat longer and at the end swollen barrel, know that this is an interesting variant of this pistol, designed to mount the silencer. The classic "twenty-one" knows everybody, used by both the Republican police, the gendarmerie and the army, the postwar Security and the StB, the Central Council of Trade Unions, the post, the railroad and whoever still. From the point of view of my interest, there is the current type-production for German armed forces. The Germans did not care much about the gun at the beginning of the war, but only in 1941, when the need for any weapon had increased significantly, the orders increased sharply and Česká zbrojovka as a loyal co-worker of the 3rd Empire filled the full amount. They were mainly used by police forces and various guard units (eg Werkschutz), today's Security Agency.

On 4 September 1944, OKH Wa JRu / Wu.G.Z IV G2-0161-0121 / 44 ordered ordering 5,000 pieces of ÅZ 27 pistols with a special master according to the Arado drawing at a price of 27,50 Imperial Marks. The condition of the order was that the pistols would be delivered from December 1944 to 1,000 units per month. Of course, in 44, everything was not as good as it had and so the first 1,000 pistols were delivered in January 45, in February it improved with 2,000 guns, in March left another 1,000, which were a little delayed, the last documented information is 4.5 45, according to which a total of 4,220 pistols were delivered. At this time, they did not pull out much.

There are confusions that over-glorify this gun. Until now, the buyers of these weapons have not been able to find out, and especially foreign collectors have begun to invent adventure theories. E.g. that they were to be used in the Greif operation in the Ardennes in winter 44, but were not delivered at that time, and there were stories about the use of these weapons in Korea at 5O. years, but none of this is credibly documented, which supports the mystery of these pistols. My personal opinion is that they were intended for use at Werwolf, but I stress that it is my personal opinion and I do not make it a historical fact. However, the secret of this gun lasts.

The pistols had a 30.4 mm long barrel larger in front and had no detachable forehead, the shock absorber was fastened to this expanded part by a collet (similar to the drill) and was protected by a groove on the barrel and a corresponding latch on the shock absorber . There were emergency sights on the dampers, as the muffler was beyond the sights of the sights. I longed to see this muffler when it occurred to me years ago to visit the Military Historical Institute in Zizkov and there I was a devoted employee, unfortunately, at this time I still did not own the camera. I do not even know if it is still possible today. According to the staff of the museum, they have only one piece in collections, and museum workers from Germany who have studied it have no collections in their collections. However, the shock absorber is all-steel very well processed, much better than its own gun at that time and without any marking. It is still unclear who actually made it, whether ČZ Strakonice or some Arado factory in the Protectorate (maybe today's Avia). Maybe it's still forgotten today, and no one knows what those strange rollers are. If the holster was used for this pistol and is not yet known.

All pistols of this order are phosphated, the upper part of the end was the eagle and the number of the weapon, the left was the inscription fnh Pistol Modell 27 Kal. 7.65 and on the right waA 76 receiver, gloves should be classified without the CZ emblém. On the barrel there was a classic Reichskine German eagle, visible in the ejection of the window, and WaA 76. Due to the well-known quantity of 4,220 pieces, this pistol is interesting, but a much more interesting is a silencer known only a few pieces. Finally, it was interesting: the classic pistol ČZ 27 was delivered to the Germans in the largest number of all non-German pistols.""

Very interesting piece. More interesting is that no one seems to definitively know the German's true intentions for these guns.

-Z/28- said:

Very interesting piece. More interesting is that no one seems to definitively know the German's true intentions for these guns.

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Maybe they had a 11pm local ordinances for noise

Wow what a find!!!

I wish every collector could have the experience of at least one amazing find like this one. Amazing find! Love that the internet makes research on the rare and obscure possible. I doubt this would have been easy or even possible pre-internet. Got to learn something neat today! Thanks for sharing and posting the research.

If that pistol had the original Suppressor attached would the whole thing still be C&R ?

C&R NFA items still require a tax stamp and long wait. But they can come form 4 straight to your house even if from out of state - just like a firearm.

Regardless, the CZ.27 pistol itself would still be a non-NFA C&R item, the suppressor isn't integrally attached or anything.
The suppressors for these are so rare though I doubt it's going to be a problem

somd_mustangs said:

Regardless, the CZ.27 pistol itself would still be a non-NFA C&R item, the suppressor isn't integrally attached or anything.
The suppressors for these are so rare though I doubt it's going to be a problem

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You mean i wont find one at the next local gun show

There is a RIA auction listed where they think a repro can that says its not working is going to bring as much as the pistols go for. Its listed with the Pistol and says estimated 5-9