5.56 NATO and.223 Rem Brass
- Thread starter Qbeam
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- Jul 29, 2014
- 50,026
Boy, that's the question, isn't it? Ask a hundred people and you'll likely get a hundred answers(and you'll never get a simple yes or no.). Some 5.56 is hotter that .223. Some is not. As long as you fire 5.56 in a 5.56(or similar) chamber, I would think you'd be okay. I rarely, if ever, load to 5.56 NATO specs. Never found the need.
They have very slightly differing case dimensions, though once fired, those differences are moot. It all depends on weather you re-size in a 5.56 die or a .223 die.
Some will say 5.56 cases are thicker, yet the preferred brass for re-forming into 300 AAC is NATO Lake City brass. Why? It's because it is actually thinner than most other brands of brass(which is generally required for reloading 300 AAC). There are also variations in case web thicknesses from manufacturer to manufacturer.
Is there a difference between 5.56 and .223 brass? Yes. Does that difference make a difference? My personal take is no. But I don't have time to read ll there is on the subject.
My preference for reloading is thus- If I'm reloading for accuracy/consistency, I'll load each batch with matching head stamps. If I'm loading 'plinking leave on the ground never gonna reuse this bass again' brass, I'll use up all my mixed head stamp brass.
They have very slightly differing case dimensions, though once fired, those differences are moot. It all depends on weather you re-size in a 5.56 die or a .223 die.
Some will say 5.56 cases are thicker, yet the preferred brass for re-forming into 300 AAC is NATO Lake City brass. Why? It's because it is actually thinner than most other brands of brass(which is generally required for reloading 300 AAC). There are also variations in case web thicknesses from manufacturer to manufacturer.
Is there a difference between 5.56 and .223 brass? Yes. Does that difference make a difference? My personal take is no. But I don't have time to read ll there is on the subject.
My preference for reloading is thus- If I'm reloading for accuracy/consistency, I'll load each batch with matching head stamps. If I'm loading 'plinking leave on the ground never gonna reuse this bass again' brass, I'll use up all my mixed head stamp brass.
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TheOriginalMexicanBob
Ultimate Member
The rule I've always understood is you can shoot a .223 in a 5.56 chamber but should not shoot a 5.56 in a .223 chamber.
TOMB, that much we understand. The question was more oriented towards reloading brass. Outrider58 gave specs and it looks like it more of a how hot and how many times for the usage and longevity.
Thanks, gents.
Q
Park ranger
Ultimate Member
- Dec 6, 2015
- 2,328
It's the same brass, use interchangeable.
A significant part of this issue involves not just the ammo standing alone, but also the chamber the ammo is fired in. Leade dimension in 5.56 chambered rifles is longer by design than the standard .223 chambering. More space equates to less pressure. Less space equates to more pressure.
Doco Overboard
Ultimate Member
556 has a primer crimp and crimping a primer makes the case head even a little bit more work hardened which is one difference. I use 556 brass in one of my rifles but always start low and work up. 223 can be loaded with some powders and a heavy bullet to high pressures.
The attached cartridge drawing has different neck dimensions which should be considered as well as cartridge run up in any semi auto rifle.
The attached cartridge drawing has different neck dimensions which should be considered as well as cartridge run up in any semi auto rifle.
- Jul 29, 2014
- 50,026
...which has led to one of the many myths concerning 5.56. You'd be surprised to see how many "5.56" chambers gauge out as being closer to .223. And vice versa.
Oh, they'll either get it right, or they won't. But the spec is what it is.
As my toolmaker father used to constantly tell me while his head would come close to exploding should I use the word "about", a dimension is a dimension is a dimension.
Not sorta. Not kinda. It either is, or it ain't.
Which is why some barrels are pricier than others. Tolerances are tighter on the pricier models.
When reloading, is there a tolerance level +/- on sizing or is it exact? I know this will probably start a knife fight, but I know consistency is a key factor for accuracy.
Q
When reloading, is there a tolerance level +/- on sizing or is it exact? I know this will probably start a knife fight, but I know consistency is a key factor for accuracy.
Q
The short (er) answer is that the reloading steps you might take, as well as the tolerances you might strive for....not to mention the money spent....will depend greatly upon what level of precision you're trying to achieve.
By way of an example, a good hunting rifle of yesteryear would group at 2 inches or less at 100 yards with premium factory ammunition. That standard today, with a good many rifles, has moved closer to one inch. Either and both can be likely and most times improved today by reloading. But only so far.
Now improved how much? Well, by way of comparison, I believe the 200 yard benchrest rifle record to be a group of .110 inches. As in 11/100 of an inch. And the record at 1000 yards is still (I believe) 1.068 inches.
Not 100 yards, but rather 200 yards and 1000 yards! Think about that for a minute. Most here aren't doing that. Not anywhere near it. And not me for sure.
Having dabbled in it enough over the years to know not to quit my day job, I like to use a golf analogy when thinking about reloading and precision.
If you have never played the game, the chances that you'll break 100 in golf the first time you play are about slim and none. Deemed to be an interesting game or otherwise, golf is a difficult game. But should you truly look to play and improve, and if you start consistently doing just a few things better....not necessarily perfectly "right", but simply better....you'll find yourself relatively soon knocking on the door of golf's first real
milestone....which is the ability for the first time to be breaking 100.
Now if you should want to be able to break 90?
Now that's a whole different animal. Though only 10 strokes of difference, you're going to have to do some things right, and you're going to have to do more than a few things better.
At 80, you're now doing a lot of things that most others aren't doing. You're doing a lot of things very right, and you're doing most everything else far better.
At 70, you're playing in another world than the 80 player entirely.
If 66 is consistently within the realm of your capability , you're capable of playing with the elites, and likely to be on tour.
- Jul 29, 2014
- 50,026
You don't play that stupid game?
Well sir, that would be proof positive that you're a whole lot smarter than I am!
Thanks man.
E.Shell
Ultimate Member
Brass is brass. Any time one changes any component, including the brass, the load should be tested from a point below maximum to determine safe max in your rifle with your components.
What has changed to change this VERY basic safety principle?
What has changed to change this VERY basic safety principle?
- Nov 5, 2018
- 291
Its amazing how many of these myths weren't around before the internet...
- Jul 29, 2014
- 50,026
- Jul 29, 2014
- 50,026
Not a damned thing as far as I'm concerned.
The OP asked a fairly simple question, which doesn't always have a simple answer. My attempt, good or poor, was to explain the similarities and differences between the two.
E.Shell
Ultimate Member
Sorry guys, nothing personal meant to any party.
Any pressure limits will be a sum of the total (rifle and components) and while we can indeed speculate, we cannot safely speculate, and it's still only speculation.
In theory, the normally-thicker milspec brass will raise pressures with the same load, while at the same time, be able to better contain it due to being thicker/stronger. For this reason, the customary approach has always been to reduce the charges slightly if going to heavier milspec brass. In practice, we just don't know without testing.
Theoretically, "(total) pressure = velocity", so if both cartridge cases are loaded to the same pressure (which may require differing powder charges), they should deliver the same velocities.
As they say "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is.", which is why we need to test.
Any pressure limits will be a sum of the total (rifle and components) and while we can indeed speculate, we cannot safely speculate, and it's still only speculation.
In theory, the normally-thicker milspec brass will raise pressures with the same load, while at the same time, be able to better contain it due to being thicker/stronger. For this reason, the customary approach has always been to reduce the charges slightly if going to heavier milspec brass. In practice, we just don't know without testing.
Theoretically, "(total) pressure = velocity", so if both cartridge cases are loaded to the same pressure (which may require differing powder charges), they should deliver the same velocities.
As they say "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is.", which is why we need to test.
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