BRN-180 SBR

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  • Oswaldo87

    Active Member
    Feb 1, 2020
    151
    Frederick County
    I am still trying to figure out this state’s rules and regs on guns.
    So I bought one of those BRN-180 lowers from brownells. For those who don’t know, it is a AR-180 stylized AR lower without a buffer tube hole. It was not considered a regulated lower when I picked it up from LGS. So I assume it is not labeled as a copycat firearm.
    I’d like to SBR it using a Sig folding stock, and pin/weld a brake to make it a full 29” (it comes out to around 27.5” with bare barrel).

    Question is, am I good to go with this configuration? Am I not seeing something missing? I’ve looked at other SBR threads but most have been either ARs or a recent one for the H&K SP5.
    Is it a no-go for any weapon to have all three of the evil features? Flash hider, 10+ removable mag, and folding stock.


    And I have other AR SBRs for the short BRN upper in case someone wanted to invite some ATF friends over to my house.
     

    dontpanic

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 7, 2013
    6,631
    Timonium
    The evil features are (you can have one)
    Flash hider
    Folding stock
    Grenade launcher

    If you use a brake and have a OAL of at least 29" you are gtg
     

    IMBLITZVT

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 20, 2009
    3,799
    Catonsville, MD
    Now that we have that solved... can we deal with another BRN 180 issue!

    No Full Auto Bolt! I really like this upper but have little interest in it as a semi auto. I need it on my registered M16 lower! However I need a bolt that will work with it. Anyone doing an aftermarket FA bolt yet? I asked Brownells and the Gen 2 is not a FA bolt... Someone needs to make one!
     

    smdub

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 14, 2012
    4,642
    MoCo
    No Full Auto Bolt!
    It can't easily be done. You know I love figuring this sort of stuff out:D As I've said before, since the bolt is short so there is room for it to recoil, there is no way to make the 'tail' of the bolt long enough to reach back and trip the M16 auto sear. The most minimalist approach I can think of is a CMMG 22LR style auto bolt w/ telescoping sear trip. Something better would likely be a set of levers like a M2/M14 but that will take modifying the upper.

    The Sig MCX bolt has a very similar 'problem'. I've thought long and hard how to convert one of those too. This is an example of the lever that someone worked out for that (not for a M16 AFAIK lower but its a similar idea)
    https://www.parkermountainmachine.com/store/p183/PMM_Sig_Sauer_MCX_Full-Auto_Kit.html
     

    Bboarder

    Me Myself & I
    Mar 7, 2010
    1,200
    Reisterstown
    Question, can you just keep it as a pistol with a folding sig brace?

    ive got multiple sbr's, but im considering a similar build and I might just keep is a pistol to get around the length issue.
     

    IMBLITZVT

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 20, 2009
    3,799
    Catonsville, MD
    It can't easily be done. You know I love figuring this sort of stuff out:D ...

    Sounds great man! I will help and go in with you when you are ready to build some!

    Question, can you just keep it as a pistol with a folding sig brace?...

    It says folding stock... brace is very specifically not a stock... or would be illegal, folding or not. So I think a folding brace and FH is good to go.
     

    Oswaldo87

    Active Member
    Feb 1, 2020
    151
    Frederick County
    I have a hard time doing stuff easy. I’m also on the idea of the brace legality not lasting forever. The stock has already been purchased so....
    If everything goes south, my boating skills are subpar.
     

    GolfR

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 20, 2016
    1,324
    Columbia MD
    The evil features are (you can have one)
    Flash hider
    Folding stock
    Grenade launcher

    If you use a brake and have a OAL of at least 29" you are gtg

    Remember that suppressor = flash hider so if you ever want to put one on that firearm you are SOL. I kept my BRN180 as a pistol for this reason.

    Also, you shouldn't need to pin the break/flash hider to make 29". Use a long enough stock (folding and extending perhaps) and you should be GTG.
     

    IMBLITZVT

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 20, 2009
    3,799
    Catonsville, MD
    Remember that suppressor = flash hider so if you ever want to put one on that firearm you are SOL. ...

    Making Federal Law into state law there. I have not seen where MD says a suppressor is a Flash hider but maybe I missed it. Remember state law also considers an SBR a handgun, so they don't always match.
     

    Oswaldo87

    Active Member
    Feb 1, 2020
    151
    Frederick County
    Remember that suppressor = flash hider so if you ever want to put one on that firearm you are SOL. I kept my BRN180 as a pistol for this reason.

    Also, you shouldn't need to pin the break/flash hider to make 29". Use a long enough stock (folding and extending perhaps) and you should be GTG.


    I was able to get the Sig folding stock. Still comes up short. Couldn’t find the “+” labeled stock that has an extra inch anywhere for sale. Not a lot of 1913 rail stock options out there. I wouldn’t mind having a fixed stock but didn’t like the current options.
     

    Oswaldo87

    Active Member
    Feb 1, 2020
    151
    Frederick County
    Went the pistol brace route using a Tailhook 1c and long pistol tube with sig folding knuckle. After running all the numbers using the long Sig folding stock, I’d still have to pin and weld a muzzle brake on. I would have been an obnoxious range partner with that concussion.
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    Making Federal Law into state law there. I have not seen where MD says a suppressor is a Flash hider but maybe I missed it. Remember state law also considers an SBR a handgun, so they don't always match.

    to quote a great legal mind well versed in MD firearms law:

    If what everyone is saying in this thread were true, SBRs could be less than 29" in OAL. Under current interpretation by MSP, an SBR can be a copycat rifle. As such, you can't have a folding stock and flash hider on your SBR. That includes suppressors. Under MD law, a flash Suppressor is :

    (G) “FLASH SUPPRESSOR” MEANS A DEVICE THAT FUNCTIONS, OR IS INTENDED TO FUNCTION, TO PERCEPTIBLY REDUCE OR REDIRECT MUZZLE FLASH FROM THE SHOOTER’S FIELD OF VISION.

    I think it's pretty clear a suppressor would be a flash suppressor for purposes of the copycat provisions.

    https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?p=3685937#post3685937
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    Not that it matters, but I love how a flash hider is not attached to the firearm if it’s not pinned and welded per ATF ouiji board, but it is part of the rifle per Maryland ouiji board. In particular I am very confused as to how a QD suppressor counts as part of a firearm.

    Oh well. Even with VA probably falling apart in the next few years, I am not sad to have left MD.
     

    Oswaldo87

    Active Member
    Feb 1, 2020
    151
    Frederick County
    How do you guys like the BRN180? I'm wanting to do a 300 blackout pistol to use with a suppressor. am liking the the idea of getting away from DI's gasses to the face. are they reliable and will they cycle with a suppressor and subsonic ammunition?

    https://www.brownells.com/rifle-par...151.aspx?avs|Cartridge_1=CCP_300+AAC+Blackout

    I have both length gen 1s and they work great. They do like full pressured .223/5.56. The steel 55gr wolf had a few failures to eject and/or pick up the next round. Had a couple double taps occur early on but haven’t seen it since
    The BRN180 lower is very well made. Just need to SBR it now or see if they do a grace exemption with this new talk of brace bans.
     

    outobie

    Active Member
    Mar 7, 2012
    142
    Annapolis
    Any experience with the current gen 2 in 300 Blk?

    I’d also like to know if you guys think this configuration would be MD compliant... if not what would I need to change.


    AR 180s pistol in 300Blk with a 10” barrel with QD suppressor, and a folding pistol brace.

    I Would also like a hand stop on the hand guard.

    Would this be compliant?

    Also IF braces are banned, could you remove the brace and just have the buffer tube? Or would you be better off removing the buffer tube also?
     

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