Thinking about selling the Uzi...

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  • jstolz

    Active Member
    Aug 28, 2018
    338
    Glen Burnie
    I know MG in Maryland need to be registered every year, but is it legal to transfer?
     

    TheOriginalMexicanBob

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 2, 2017
    32,151
    Sun City West, AZ
    Yes...machine guns are legal to transfer in MD...just gotta jump through the hoops...unless the MGA has banned the sale and transfer of them which I'm not aware of. But I think the MGA will get around to that eventually.
     

    Mike OTDP

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 12, 2008
    3,318
    Hold onto it. It's an investment. Sell it later for even more than you can now.

    NFA may appreciate, but given the legal issues and time/trouble/cost involved in selling, I would not recommend it as an investment.

    Antique guns, maybe...if you knew what you were buying and where to sell. The internet killed off a lot of pretty profitable trade setups.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    I ran the numbers once, and outside of a few edge cases like HK sears, none of them beat the NASDAQ if you put your money in one or the other in 1986. I also agree that MGs have a LOT of legislative risk exposure that stocks don't have, which makes their risk-adjusted return less appealing than it may seem.

    I have an M11/9, and would like an M16 RR... because I want to shoot them, and I'd like my kids to have the choice of owning a MG rather than it being totally out of reach.
     

    rsideout

    Senior Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 11, 2009
    6,707
    MD - Capital Region
    The Uzi is one of my favorite subguns. Very controllable and it uses easily accessible cheap mags that are easy to load. It is also one of the best subguns to run suppressed.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,876
    Actual vintage , historical pieces have their intrinsic value . BUT for most FA items their is looming in the background Two opposing risks :

    Become more restricted , either ban on ownership , or ban/ substantially increased restrictions on transfers .

    Conversely , Hughes goes away , and newly mfg sells for actual production costs plus profit margins similar to regular firearms . The value of non- rare, shooter grade FA will overnight drop to the level of mid priced AR- 15 .
     

    Bboarder

    Me Myself & I
    Mar 7, 2010
    1,200
    Reisterstown
    Actual vintage , historical pieces have their intrinsic value . BUT for most FA items their is looming in the background Two opposing risks :

    Become more restricted , either ban on ownership , or ban/ substantially increased restrictions on transfers .

    Conversely , Hughes goes away , and newly mfg sells for actual production costs plus profit margins similar to regular firearms . The value of non- rare, shooter grade FA will overnight drop to the level of mid priced AR- 15 .

    I doubt they'll outlaw NFA stuff, they'll just expand their reach into AR15's and semi auto's if they can to tax the crap out of every gun owner. $200 to start, and then yearly registrations. Worst part is we'll all pay, because we are law abiding citizens while drug dealers continue to kill each other in scores.
     

    SigDog

    Active Member
    Feb 11, 2013
    173
    West Virginia
    NFA market is soft right now.
    Keep it.
    You'll regret selling it for sure.


    UZI

    "What about an UZI? They are available and still not crazy expensive (not counting the Mini UZI).
    Mine is built by Vector and runs like a top. Had some teething pains but it now runs 100% after a couple hundred rounds.
    Magazines and spare parts are plentiful and cheap. Built and handles like a brick. Way too heavy. Ergonomics suck and the grip feels like a 2x4.
    I love the UZI."
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    I doubt they'll outlaw NFA stuff, they'll just expand their reach into AR15's and semi auto's if they can to tax the crap out of every gun owner. $200 to start, and then yearly registrations. Worst part is we'll all pay, because we are law abiding citizens while drug dealers continue to kill each other in scores.
    One mass shooting with a legal belt-fed machinegun and we're screwed. We are EXTREMELY lucky the dude in LV went with a bumpstock instead of a legal MG.
     

    IMBLITZVT

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 20, 2009
    3,799
    Catonsville, MD
    One mass shooting with a legal belt-fed machinegun and we're screwed. We are EXTREMELY lucky the dude in LV went with a bumpstock instead of a legal MG.

    I never understand the point of comments like this. I mean they are coming for all guns. So we are all screwed no matter what. Current MG laws are some of the oddest on the books. They have been the least touched since the 1930s. We all know they are illegal except for those with that super impossible to get license. ;) MGs might be next, AR15s, Semi autos, Internet Ammo, Gunbroker... I mean there is no real end to what they will go after in the next mass shooting. At this rate, schools will never go back in person, and no more large events, so the Wuhan virus has solved mass shootings. The best you could do now is several mass-less shootings.
     

    MaxVO2

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    I ran the numbers once, and outside of a few edge cases like HK sears, none of them beat the NASDAQ if you put your money in one or the other in 1986. I also agree that MGs have a LOT of legislative risk exposure that stocks don't have, which makes their risk-adjusted return less appealing than it may seem.

    I have an M11/9, and would like an M16 RR... because I want to shoot them, and I'd like my kids to have the choice of owning a MG rather than it being totally out of reach.

    ******Dunno when you ran the numbers, but if it has been in the last 3 years or so, I would imagine the gap has widened. As you mentioned, MG's have a very high legislative risk exposure. Stocks like Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Netflix, Google, and many many others have been phenomenally lucrative for many many investors and mutual fund managers, private equity folks, and for the economy in general.

    I know people with 100's of thousands of dollars in NFA stuff that have been "investing" in that sector since the 1980's and they have had some big hits, but it took decades to realize them, and they have to store and maintain the items, and deal with wear and tear from using them, plus all manner of paperwork and hassle.

    If you have a diversified portfolio with a decent cost basis to the above mentioned companies, as well as perhaps a few others that are not household names but have done well, I would argue you would be better off financially and just able to buy whatever you wanted NFA wise, and for many many stocks - also have the added benefit of dividends and potential extra income from that or for reinvestment, etc..

    There are people that have done well with NFA stuff no doubt, but the folks that have the most NFA stuff, and just buy whatever they want, whenever they want, probably didn't make their money investing in NFA or other gun related things. They have big collections of very valuable firearms but they mebbe bought it not so much for investing as just because they are a hobby or toys, or whatever..

    There are literally millions of people who have become millionaires with increases in the stock market from prudent investing, over a shorter period of time. Having that kind of buying power or financial leverage allows one to buy whatever they want from specialists that have the valuable items, at a time they want it, and not worry too much about the price per se, or worry about the risk of the item going up or down in value.

    The risk adjusted return just doesn't seem worthwhile to me. I'd rather just buy what I want, not have to really quibble too much about the price, and use the items because they are fun to shoot and have. There's money to be made pretty much anywhere, and NFA stuff is certainly one of them, but it just seems more risky to me than pouring over some financial statements, and buying some decent stocks, mutual funds, etf's, and other financial instruments that will pay off in perpetuity, versus guns, ammo, or M16 lowers, etc..

    Probably more likely NFA stuff gets either more regulated or somewhat banned from transfer than not if a guy like Joe Biden gets in the White House versus an Amazon or Apple going under. Joe Biden may lose this time around, but there's more guys aligned with Biden just waiting in the wings to mess things up for us gun owners.

    I guess one could invest in both, but speaking personally - I've done well with more traditional investing, with it's tax advantaged and passive income potential than thinking too much about my (small) NFA collection, and how much upside there is return wise. I just have them because they are fun.
     

    rob-cubed

    In need of moderation
    Sep 24, 2009
    5,387
    Holding the line in Baltimore
    I'm surprised how many people are saying MGs are not an investment. I bought a lowly 11/9 five years ago, it's now with twice what I paid. That's not quite as good as some other investments—like buying stock at the bottom during COVID which made way more than that in only a few months—but it's still a good return.

    Perhaps more importantly, I get a fun toy the one or two times a year I trot it out. Everyone wants to shoot it and grins from ear to ear.

    Sure, they can be outlawed. I'm happy with the $3500 I invested.
     

    Mike OTDP

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 12, 2008
    3,318
    The issues with MGs as an investment are:

    1. Much of the value depends on them remaining legal, but in very short supply. Change that in either direction, and the price will shift dramatically.
    2. If the gun is on a Form 4, merely getting it onto the market takes a $200 transfer tax and several months.

    If you're looking for an investment, there are better options.
     

    IMBLITZVT

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 20, 2009
    3,799
    Catonsville, MD
    ...If you're looking for an investment, there are better options.

    It all depends on what you are trying to do investment wise. The NFA is the longest standing gun law in the US. The $200 transfer part has not changed. In 86 we saw them cut off new production. Its been 34 years without a change since then. Prices on all MGs have only gone up since that time and very rarely drop back from their gains.

    In Jan 1980, gold was $2265/Oz. Even with the way things are now, current prices are still under $2k. So MGs, any MG has been a better investment. Gold was confiscated by FDR. MGs have never been confiscated. Yet Gold is a very common thing to invest in. It might not be your favorite way but its a common way. It will never be worth nothing...

    It depends on what you are looking for. MGs have been a pretty safe investment for a while. Granted you may or may not make a lot but the likelihood of great loss has not proven out.

    If you are looking to maximize your investment return, sure there are other ways to make more. However guns are a fairly safe investment and MGs are some of the few that seem to hold their value. So while you might not want to dump all your investment money on a poorly timed MG purchase... having it as part of your investment is not a bad idea. About the time the stock market hits zero... your MG will be worth more than all the dollars in the world!

    Also, unlike most investments, you can use and enjoy it and gain a secondary value that way. So a stock would have made you a $100 more over the same time.... but you got $1k of fun out of the MG!

    It certainly has its place in the investment world, as not all investments are high gain and no risk. I bought my M11 for $2500 in 2006. Its worth more than 3 times that now. Its not been a bad investment and I have had a lot more fun with it than my 401k that did not do so hot over the same period.
     

    rsideout

    Senior Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 11, 2009
    6,707
    MD - Capital Region
    The issues with MGs as an investment are:

    1. Much of the value depends on them remaining legal, but in very short supply. Change that in either direction, and the price will shift dramatically.
    2. If the gun is on a Form 4, merely getting it onto the market takes a $200 transfer tax and several months.

    If you're looking for an investment, there are better options.

    You can sell an NFA weapon directly to another resident of your state of residency without the assistance of a C3 dealer. Single tax stamp transfer. Same day, no wait to file a new form 4. Very simple procedure. Same waiting period as a standard single F4 transfer. No big deal.
     

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