Any dirt bikers here?

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

  • No ad networks!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • DZ

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 9, 2005
    4,091
    Mount Airy, MD
    What do you dirt bikers/dual-sporters recommend as a dual sport that would compliment an R1200GS?
     

    smdub

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 14, 2012
    4,644
    MoCo
    What do you dirt bikers/dual-sporters recommend as a dual sport that would compliment an R1200GS?
    Care to elaborate more? They are about on opposite ends of the spectrum. It's like asking what would compliment a S1000RR :)
    The GS is a tank, so maybe something hardcore offroad and on the opposite end of the weight spektrum = KTM 350/500 EXCF. If you still want cushy on-road manners a WR250R (though they were just discontinued after a LONG run due to emissions.) Something heavier that can do road stages comfortably and dirst roads are no problem = Tenere 700, KTM 790 S/R. We need more info to go on. Dual sport covers a *WIDE* spectrum. What would you like to do on it? Dirt:pavement ratio? Are you a power junkie?
     

    DZ

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 9, 2005
    4,091
    Mount Airy, MD
    Care to elaborate more? They are about on opposite ends of the spectrum. It's like asking what would compliment a S1000RR :)
    The GS is a tank, so maybe something hardcore offroad and on the opposite end of the weight spektrum = KTM 350/500 EXCF. If you still want cushy on-road manners a WR250R (though they were just discontinued after a LONG run due to emissions.) Something heavier that can do road stages comfortably and dirst roads are no problem = Tenere 700, KTM 790 S/R. We need more info to go on. Dual sport covers a *WIDE* spectrum. What would you like to do on it? Dirt:pavement ratio? Are you a power junkie?
    Sure, though the S1000RR comparison doesn't make any sense. The R1200GS is to motorcycling what the Landcruiser is to SUVs. A fantastic machine, very capable on and offroad, but being a $90k full size SUV, too big and too expensive to rip around on smaller and more technical trails. Of course there are outliers who use a 1200 as a trials bike, but that's not near the middle of the bell curve of what these bikes are intended for. I use mine pretty close to what it was intended for: on and off road. Commuting, trips down to South Carolina to see my dad, riding sections of the MABDR, Green Ridge State Forest, Michaux, forest service roads in WV etc. Not much of that would be in the wheelhouse of the RR, especially for a 6'3" full size human. Maybe you meant XR? The GS is the perfect do-all motorcycle, but not intended to be the offroad specialist that a dual-sport is. Cruise on the highway at 85, ride a hundred miles of dirt and gravel roads, then jump back on the highway and ride home? Perfect. More technical trails like you might find in GWNF or maybe Pine Barrens for example, may not so much. Either way, a dual sport would generally be in that street legal 300-400 lb bracket with knobbies, though the T700 and others seem to be stretching that weight class north. Thats what I'm looking to add to the stable. Something that is more of an offroad specialist, but still capable of some highway travel when needed. I really like the idea of the T700, but on paper doesn't seem much lighter than my GS. In our area, it seems to be difficult since good trails seem to be a pretty good ride from home, so a 250 seems like it would be anemic on the highway, but a 700 seems almost as big as my GS.
     

    smdub

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 14, 2012
    4,644
    MoCo
    Ok, that explains more. FWIW, We did the KAT earlier this year. ~1000mi around KY. About half of us did all the 'options' (except for a few we missed the turn for.) There were a couple DRZs, one WR250R, two XR600s, one DR650, and a handful of KTM/Husy 500s. All singles. For dirt riding, I'm in the 'lightest bike possible' camp. That's a new KTM EXCF w/ a comfy seat. When the trails we ride don't require any road stages or a license plate, the little 2-stroke 150 almost always gets the nod. It's polar opposite of my 500. I have to work harder to ride it but it forces learning and the nearly 30# advantage comes in handy after the dozenteenth time you pick it up. Different horses for courses.

    I actually meant the RR (though only somewhat jokingly.). Both are completely out of their element in the technical stuff. W/ knobbies many sport bikes could keep up w/ a big GS offroad. There is a fellow w/ a knobby GSXR that can ride near anything. Also look at the Duc Scrambler / CB500X, etc. Can ride those anywhere tight easier than the GS. This is causing the explosion of new 'light' adventure bike segment. Everyone I know w/ Super10s and KTM1290s have sold them for the smaller twins. There just isn't the wide open offroad out here on the East coast like there is out West where the really big bikes seem to fit better.

    All good dirt trails are a bit of a haul from here which is just boring on a dirt focused bike. You'll have to decide if you want to haul/trailer a bike to the trailhead or will always ride there. I quite prefer the haul the bike to the trailhead, ride super technical stuff, have spares parts and a ride home if I break the bike (or myself.)
     

    N3YMY

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 21, 2013
    2,763
    What do you dirt bikers/dual-sporters recommend as a dual sport that would compliment an R1200GS?

    You said dual sport, so for me that means:
    • No gnarly single track
    • Easy to maintain
    • Good, known track record
    • Easy to modify as you see fit

    For me this leads to the DR 650 or XR 600.

    Neither are pricey used or new.

    They air air cooled, highly reliable, and easy to perform maintenance (even valve adjustments).

    Large aftermarket available for farkle/mods. Long lived manufacturing lines with many used parts. Neither are great bike like the BMW, but a great to beginning to make whatever you need of them.

    I don’t suggest the KLR since it’s now a waterboxer.

    Same for the DRZ 400, KTM 500, and the WR 250.

    All are good bikes, but for me, especially in adventure land or the occasional “where does that go?”, less is more (ie KISS).

    The DR will do single track if properly prepared, just not single track with tight radius turns (turning radius is not a small thing for the DR, and I suspect the XR shares this property).

    Proper final drive choices can let you go from street gearing to dirt gearing in 10 minutes with only a CS change (13T-16T) in the event of gnarlier than expected “where does that go?” occurrences.

    They are machines that will do 85 MPH all day long and do the unimproved roads as if they are no big deal. Especially if you dial in the suspension.

    Perhaps the XR does better, but for heavier loads/riders, the stock suspension on the DR leaves much to be desired. However, the after market has good solutions for this.

    I’ve put 36k miles on my DR riding various events such as PACG 300, PAGC 500, PB 500, and the PAW 1000, +300 mile day rides (I don’t have a wind screen), pure dirt and various other trips.

    At any rate, that’s my experience and I lived through it...
     

    boothdoc

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 23, 2008
    5,133
    Frederick county
    2 stroke. Not street legal anywhere in the US. (Yes, I know you can get some two strokes titled/plated if you are clever/careful.)

    My bad. The 350 is a 4stroke steer legal.

    I know KTMs are street legal two strokes.

    I have a 95cre 260 two stroke. Fun one.
     

    C.Alls

    Active Member
    Nov 9, 2013
    237
    2 stroke. Not street legal anywhere in the US. (Yes, I know you can get some two strokes titled/plated if you are clever/careful.)

    That's actually not true. I've been in the industry for 20 years and I've personally converted dozens of 2 stroke off road bikes into "capable" dual sport machines. If your state/county has emissions requirements for motorcycles that may make the process not possible until direct injection makes its way into the 2 stroke motorcycle scene.
     

    smdub

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 14, 2012
    4,644
    MoCo
    I specifically said you can get a plate on one. My 150 has a MD title. I could add turn signals & odometer and get it inspected to get a plate if I wanted. But it doesn't meet federal emissions requirements and isn't sold legal for road use anywhere in the US. There hasn't been a street legal 2-stroke since, what, the early 80's RZ350? Bimota made another run at it w/ the VDue in the late 90s(?) but never got approved AFAIK (I wanted one at the time so bad!) So a converted bike is 'legal enough' here but not everywhere. The new injected KTMs do meet Euro5 but thats not recognized here.
     

    smdub

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 14, 2012
    4,644
    MoCo
    For me this leads to the DR 650 or XR 600.
    ...
    They air air cooled, highly reliable, and easy to perform maintenance (even valve adjustments).
    And they are dinosaurs. Yes, simple has some advantages. But...

    • Their suspension is crap compared to modern setups. You can throw $$$ at it to solve this problem. The WR250 is like riding a couch - so comfortable! My new 500 is leaps and bounds better in rock gardens than my old '12 (which was infinitly better than my DRZ.)
    • A DR650 literally weighs 95# more than my 500. (nearly impossible to solve that problem w/ $.) Screw that! I slid about 3' off the trail down a hill this weekend @ Eagle Bay on my little 150. My bars were literally still touching the trail. Took me 5+min to wrestle that sucker in the slick-ass clay back up the hill. There is no way I could have wrestled 125# more. Would have just sat there until my buddy doubled back to help (which still might have been a better idea than making me so tired.)
    • EFI has better fuel efficiency. Doesn't gum up over the winter or ethanol gas. Better throttle response (unless you're running a flat slide pumper carb and then throw fuel eff out the window.) Better fuel eff in a dual sport means you need a smaller tank (= less weight) or you can go farther w/ same enduro tank. EFI doesn't leak or flood when tipped over. Self compensates for altitude and weather. Just works (until it doesn't of course.) Air cooled & carb can make sense if you are riding across Africa, everywhere else its just old clunky technology.
    • 5 vs 6 speed gear box. DR650 has a 2.93:1 1st to 5th ratio. The KTM500 has 3.18 w/ its 6 gears. The WR250R is 3.36. My 500 easily cruises at 70-80. On the KAT there may or may not have been 100mph+ runs on a 500 (verified on GPS). That '10 minute sprocket swap' you mention to go explore? 1) Its take more than 10min to swap a sprocket. 2) its simply not needed w/ the wide ratio 6-speed gearboxes now. Cruising along and see that road you want to explore? You just turn and go.

    On the KAT this year, there was one DR650 and a big XR that did everything. But they are excellent riders and I'm sure as heck glad I didn't have to ride their bikes in some of the stuff we did. They both said they'd be riding newer/lighter machinery if they could.
    Have another friend who had a big XR on the Shen 500 last year. He didn't do all the options we did.

    Edit: I'm not hating on the big DR/XRs! Its just the new machines are so much more comfortable, make more power, and easier to ride. The major drawback is newer bikes are more expensive.
    Edit2: If DZ didn't already have a big adventure bike a DR/XR might make a good only bike. But I'd lean to a more dirt focused, lighter bike for a second bike so the use cases don't over lap so much.
     

    willtill

    The Dude Abides
    MDS Supporter
    May 15, 2007
    24,317
    It's a tank. But it's my tank. And it's fun! :)

    DR650.jpg


    I have Intimidators installed in the front fork tubes, that took the dive outta the front. Re-jetted the carb, drilled the slide, opened the airbox. Better free flowing exhaust. Have done a lot of other mods on it and it's perfect. To be truthful though, it spends all of it's time on pavement. Just nowhere to ride off road around here.
     

    N3YMY

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 21, 2013
    2,763
    And they are dinosaurs. Yes, simple has some advantages. But...

    • Their suspension is crap compared to modern setups. You can throw $$$ at it to solve this problem. The WR250 is like riding a couch - so comfortable! My new 500 is leaps and bounds better in rock gardens than my old '12 (which was infinitly better than my DRZ.)

    No debate there. However can the WR do 85MPH comfortably? Never ridden one...

    • A DR650 literally weighs 95# more than my 500. (nearly impossible to solve that problem w/ $.) Screw that! I slid about 3' off the trail down a hill this weekend @ Eagle Bay on my little 150. My bars were literally still touching the trail. Took me 5+min to wrestle that sucker in the slick-ass clay back up the hill. There is no way I could have wrestled 125# more. Would have just sat there until my buddy doubled back to help (which still might have been a better idea than making me so tired.)
    That is one thing of the DR, at what it weighs, it encourages you to be a better rider sooner (ie less drops/pickups). However, somethings can never be avoided. I have lots of dirt experience, so I can ride the DR that way, some of my riding buddies can't. Once again, pure dirt is not on DZ's agenda (or so I believe).

    One could easy make the argument that the heavier machines like the DR/XR should only be ridden by those with solid off road foundations. Otherwise, easy to get injured/end up picking up the machine alot.

    • EFI has better fuel efficiency. Doesn't gum up over the winter or ethanol gas. Better throttle response (unless you're running a flat slide pumper carb and then throw fuel eff out the window.) Better fuel eff in a dual sport means you need a smaller tank (= less weight) or you can go farther w/ same enduro tank. EFI doesn't leak or flood when tipped over. Self compensates for altitude and weather. Just works (until it doesn't of course.) Air cooled & carb can make sense if you are riding across Africa, everywhere else its just old clunky technology.
    There lies a primary gripe for me; You've got to have enough juice to run the fuel pump on a EFI machine; If something happens where the battery gets killed or run down to the point where there's not at least enough juice to
    • run the fuel pump
    • run the starter
    • keep the ECU alive (many ECUs shutdown below 10.5 VDC)

    Then you are done.

    (many ECUs must be alive for spark and fuel to exist)

    I recently had the unfortunate experience where the starter button had stuck on my pure dirt machine, thus killing the battery. However, I didn't know this until I need to restart the machine. I was at the top of a hill, but with a croaked battery, the ride was over. No field repair was going to fix that and I was not going to be able to bump start the machine either (ie no fuel) :tdown:
    • 5 vs 6 speed gear box. DR650 has a 2.93:1 1st to 5th ratio. The KTM500 has 3.18 w/ its 6 gears. The WR250R is 3.36. My 500 easily cruises at 70-80. On the KAT there may or may not have been 100mph+ runs on a 500 (verified on GPS). That '10 minute sprocket swap' you mention to go explore? 1) Its take more than 10min to swap a sprocket. 2) its simply not needed w/ the wide ratio 6-speed gearboxes now. Cruising along and see that road you want to explore? You just turn and go.
    For exploration, I don't change the CS.

    If I end up at a place that is more gnarly than expected or I'm going to be there for hours, I will. Point is, the capability is there if I want/need it.

    Yes, a modern machine with a modern gearbox would be a god send, but I'd rather have a simpler, field repairable machine.

    I love my 300cc EFI pure dirt ride, but for me, I wouldn't take it dual sporting unless I knew that I wouldn't be going faster than 50 MPH tops. It'll do 71 MPH, but it will scream doing so, and would be very unhappy after 300 miles of it.

    On the KAT this year, there was one DR650 and a big XR that did everything.
    How far apart are the gas stops on the KAT? My dirt ride is done a 70 miles, the DR with a aftermarket gets me about 188 to reserve. Still not enough for the TAT :sad20:

    Edit: I'm not hating on the big DR/XRs! Its just the new machines are so much more comfortable, make more power, and easier to ride. The major drawback is newer bikes are more expensive.
    Edit2: If DZ didn't already have a big adventure bike a DR/XR might make a good only bike. But I'd lean to a more dirt focused, lighter bike for a second bike so the use cases don't over lap so much.

    Understood, this is why I listed assumptions in my post.

    On the other hand I've ridden with one rider that handles the GS1200 like a boss off pavement and then gets on a Husky FE 501 on the same area and just WFOs that machine at the littlest thing into the woods every time he encountered something trivial that on the GS, would have been nothing for him.

    He's still working on that problem a year later, but with more success :thumbsup:
     

    N3YMY

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 21, 2013
    2,763
    It's a tank. But it's my tank. And it's fun! :)

    The DR never ceases to put a smile on my face :party29:

    Just nowhere to ride off road around here.

    You ain't just whistling Dixie there.

    It's a 2.75-3 hour drive to FRO or AoAA for me; 3 hrs to MRA; 3 hours to my parents (lots of places to ride there) and 4.5-5 hours to the ANF, 1.75 hours to Taskers Gap and 6.5 hours to HM.

    Green Ridge is a good location, but they closed the trail loop and the new trails are too far west.

    I might as well go to a place with thousands of acres (ie FRO ~20000).

    Plus it's pay and ride, none of the compass or other SSN nonsense...
     
    Last edited:

    smdub

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 14, 2012
    4,644
    MoCo
    However can the WR do 85MPH comfortably? Never ridden one...
    I doubt it. One of the older fellows on the KAT had one. He could keep up w/ everyone but I think it's top speed stock is not much beyond that. I've not ridden Rachel's on the road. Everyone is crossing their fingers that Yamaha reintroduce it as the WR350/400 or something. They'd finally kick the DRZ400 out of the market.
    There lies a primary gripe for me; You've got to have enough juice to run the fuel pump on a EFI machine
    Need enough juice to run the spark on most all bikes now too. We've had a Beta kill its battery at HM by leaving the headlight on. No kickstarter on it either. We just carry tiny jumper cables now (two short pcs of 8-10ga wire.) There are a couple vendors (incl Yamaha) that make short EC5 connector harnesses to go on the battery just like the SAE connector for a Battery Tender. All lithium jump packs use those now. We are going to put those connectors on our jump cables. We always ride w/ at least one other person so easy to jump. My DRZ carb would flood so bad if it laid on its side so long we'd kill the battery cranking it. The little TTR125 will kill a battery in the cold trying to start every time. Carbed bikes can have problems starting too.

    ]How far apart are the gas stops on the KAT? My dirt ride is done a 70 miles, the DR with a aftermarket gets me about 188 to reserve. Still not enough for the TAT :sad20:
    KAT is easily done on a stock tank. My 500 is a hair over 9L factory (=2.4g). We got ~55mpg avg on the four 500s = ~130mi on stock tank. I carried a 1.5L fuel bottle and did use it one leg but we passed a bunch of gas stations earlier.
    Two of my good buddies did the TAT a few years back (DRZ400S & FE501). Yeah, they both had huge tanks. The western sections have pretty large gaps between stops. I'd like to give it a go - or at least the western half.
    I liked doing the KAT. Had never done anything like that before. But I'd just go to western part of the loop and ride the beautiful dirt sections for a week next time. Skip all the road stuff. Some of the others had the same feeling. Some liked the road/dirt mix. Different strokes.
     

    DZ

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 9, 2005
    4,091
    Mount Airy, MD
    Lots of good thoughts and suggestions here. I just got back from a short backpacking trip in GWNF where I spent some time hiking 4x4 trails. I was thinking that I would feel generally confident riding those on my GS until something went wrong, at which point I could have a hell of a time getting the bike back on the road myself.

    I had an experience in Michaux back when I still had the factory Anakee 3s where a road I had been on a few weeks prior had turned to mud in the Spring thaw. I was having a hell of a time getting out of the ruts and in one case was nearing ending up in a ditch. I quickly realized I'd be in a world of shit trying to get 600 lbs worth of bike out of a ditch by myself. I quickly got some 50/50 tires after that, but 600 lbs is still 600 lbs...

    I think if the Tenere 700 were closer to 400 lbs than 500, I would jump on it. Another bike that has caught my eye is the AJP PR7, though I do wonder about getting parts for a less common manufacturer.
     

    Attachments

    • 20190406_113155r.jpg
      20190406_113155r.jpg
      129.5 KB · Views: 168
    • 20190406_114029.jpg
      20190406_114029.jpg
      143.8 KB · Views: 152

    Users who are viewing this thread

    Latest posts

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    274,921
    Messages
    7,258,955
    Members
    33,349
    Latest member
    christian04

    Latest threads

    Top Bottom