45 colt loads for conversion cylinders

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  • Archeryrob

    Undecided on a great many things
    Mar 7, 2013
    3,064
    Washington Co. - Fairplay
    Ok, so I have been looking at loading 45 colt cartridges for my Howell conversion cylinder. They say to limit to low power loads and listed 850 FPS and 12000 PSI, but all things I have read PSI shows slightly higher than CUP the powder manufacturers list. So the slightly high 12000's could be close.

    I was looking at Trailboss and even at Clays although I have yet to find any to buy locally or online and until LPP are available for found I can't load it anyways.

    I have a 160 and 200 grain mold for 452 LRNFP bullets. I was figuring I'd save on lead. Now I am not sure I just wasted $23 on the Lee 160 grain mold as speeds and pressures seem to exceed the limits listed. Bigger does seem to be better, but i can make 200 grain work.

    The attached pic shows all the places it exceed 850 fps or 12000 cup even though they said psi. Though for other powder to compare also?
     

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    toppkatt

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 22, 2017
    1,185
    I think I'd be more worried about the pressure than the velocity. My thought would be any 'cowboy action' load should be safe. Perhaps the conversion company could help you out with loads they find safe, not just 'generic' pressure/velocity charts.
     

    Art3

    Eqinsu Ocha
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 30, 2015
    13,267
    Harford County
    However much black powder fills the case, with your bullet giving about 1/8inch compression at the desired COAL:innocent0

    45 S&W Schofield is essentually a .45 Colt "Short," that can safely be fired from .45 Colts. The rim is slightly bigger, but I have never heard of that being a problem. For BP purposes, the shorter length means less powder needed to fill the air gap and make a lighter load.

    Lyman lists, for a 200 grain SWC in .45 Schofield a starting Clays load of 4.0 grains to give 747 fps and 7,000 cup (4.5gr max at 853fps and 10,300 cup)

    Starline makes .45 Schofield brass. Brownell's has it in stock:
    https://www.brownells.com/reloading/brass/pistol-brass/45-s-w-schofield-brass-prod118599.aspx

    You might even cut down some of your .45 Colt brass, if you don't mind mismatched headstamps.
     

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    22,734
    Socialist State of Maryland
    I don't know if you have these powders but I will give you two loads that I have used for over 10 years in my .45 conversions. Both use the Lee 200gn RNFP bullet. One is 6.0gns of Bullseye, the other is 6.3gns of Red Dot. They are mild and accurate in both my Remington and Colt Howell conversions.

    FYI. Don't try shooting 255gn bullets in BP revolvers as they will shoot too high to adjust for.
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,282
    HoCo
    I have not logged the accuracy in group size but I have used 5.5gr TrailBoss under the Lee RNFP 200gr @ 1.590
    I dont know why but I have notes that others have used as low as 3.5gr but I did not note my source
     

    Archeryrob

    Undecided on a great many things
    Mar 7, 2013
    3,064
    Washington Co. - Fairplay
    So I shaded in green some of the more useful ranges in recipes. I found info on Clays at 5gr also and added that for a 200 RNFP, but can't seem to find any data to support FPS or pressure it might make. it should probably fall about right.

    Anyone know a reloading software you can download or buy, that also works with Linux? If it is windows I can learn trying to install it in Q4wine.

    John, thanks I copied those down. I added Bullseye, American Select and Unique while off here last night but they only list data for 230 grain bullets and not 200 or 250's

    Melnic, Thanks, 5.5 I have highlighted as their minimum. 6 looks like it should be more powerful and still within specs, have you tried that?

    Art, thanks, but not trying to get into cutting cases

    Tightgroup seemed to be a good powder but only for the larger bullets. Lighter bullets exceeded the speed listed, but not the pressure. It also uses a lot more powder for lighter bullets.

    All this thinking becuase I can't buy primers and actually shoot anything. Only paper cartridges and roundballs.
     

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    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,282
    HoCo
    I have to date never tried more than the 5.5gr Trailboss and with Pure soft lead 200 RNFP with alox. I never looked at accuracy and just shot at big 12" plates @25 yards or paper indoors.
    In the coming months I'll try spending more time with it but first start with seeing what I have already loaded and how its shooting. Last 2 times out, I meant to bring/shoot the pistol while bench testing loads @ 25 yards but either forgot the gun, the ammo or ran out of time :(

    I have a Taylors 45 colt Replica I use the same Ammo so it really needs to shoot well out of that one first.
     

    Archeryrob

    Undecided on a great many things
    Mar 7, 2013
    3,064
    Washington Co. - Fairplay
    I finally have my Clays powder coming, got LPP's and its getting warm enough that I might cast a bunch of 200 grain bullets. Here is the real question. Can I powder coat soft lead in a conversion cylinder instead of lubing? I can't find anything saying yes you can, or don't be stupid.

    Or just get the beeswax and deer fat out and pan lube them old school? I got both and once the damn thought crossed my mind I spent all night on YT and the internet hoping to find someone stating something. I see 45 colt powder coated in lever actions and such. Damn, now I just want to know if it is a good idea and a damn dumb one.

    Is alox that much different than powder coat? Like a soft coat.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    * Can * you ? Yes , you Can .

    How will the comparitive accuracy be ? Let us know , we're curious too .
     

    Art3

    Eqinsu Ocha
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 30, 2015
    13,267
    Harford County
    I suspect you'd be OK. The old school beeswax lubes for black powder are important for keeping the powder fouling soft, which isn't a concern for smokeless.
     

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    22,734
    Socialist State of Maryland
    I finally have my Clays powder coming, got LPP's and its getting warm enough that I might cast a bunch of 200 grain bullets. Here is the real question. Can I powder coat soft lead in a conversion cylinder instead of lubing? I can't find anything saying yes you can, or don't be stupid.

    Or just get the beeswax and deer fat out and pan lube them old school? I got both and once the damn thought crossed my mind I spent all night on YT and the internet hoping to find someone stating something. I see 45 colt powder coated in lever actions and such. Damn, now I just want to know if it is a good idea and a damn dumb one.

    Is alox that much different than powder coat? Like a soft coat.

    Yes you can. However, my experience is that it opens up the groups.
     

    Archeryrob

    Undecided on a great many things
    Mar 7, 2013
    3,064
    Washington Co. - Fairplay
    Thanks guys, I figured that was the case with smokeless.


    Yes you can. However, my experience is that it opens up the groups.

    Well there's always a good reason to pan lube.

    I guess I'll have to try some each way and see. I can't really experiement much in powder loads with clays powder as the Min. is 4.6 and I am figuring that 5.5 is going to be getting close on exceeding pressures. So I might never load over 5.2 or even 5 grains. Gordons reloading doesn't have any data for Clays to run it. I don't have any other options I am aware of yet running on a Linux OS.
     

    Brickman301

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 23, 2015
    2,534
    FREDERICK, MD
    I powder coat for my 45 conversion cylinder. Trail boss powder, 255 grain Lee bullet, powder coated. Shoots as accurate as I need it to be ( cowboy action type shooting)
     

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    22,734
    Socialist State of Maryland
    I powder coat for my 45 conversion cylinder. Trail boss powder, 255 grain Lee bullet, powder coated. Shoots as accurate as I need it to be ( cowboy action type shooting)

    When I said it opens up the groups, I meant the difference between one ragged hole to a 11/2 to 2 inch group at 20 yards. It was definitely still acceptable but, for me, not to the point of going through the trouble of powder coating vs using Xlox.
     

    Brickman301

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 23, 2015
    2,534
    FREDERICK, MD
    When I said it opens up the groups, I meant the difference between one ragged hole to a 11/2 to 2 inch group at 20 yards. It was definitely still acceptable but, for me, not to the point of going through the trouble of powder coating vs using Xlox.

    I guess that’s the difference between us, I find it easier to powder coat, than to do traditional lube.
    For me I do all my casting and powder coating in the garage. So for me, I do it out there then bring everything inside where I load. I can cast and powder coat at the same time, saving me time. I also do big batches at one time. In fact this time of year, I do most all of my casting and powder coating, for the entire year. It’s to hot, in the summer to be around a lead pot and oven.

    Neither of us are wrong, we just like different methods.
     

    Brickman301

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 23, 2015
    2,534
    FREDERICK, MD
    Man one ragged hole at 20 yards! You're a better shot than me with a handgun then. I can't keep a pistol that still.

    Me too, although I’m not much of a pistol shooter. I’m assuming he’s talking from a bench and rest. I’m guessing this is during load development?

    I’m don’t shoot a lot of handguns, just hitting steel targets is good enough accuracy for me.
     

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    22,734
    Socialist State of Maryland
    Me too, although I’m not much of a pistol shooter. I’m assuming he’s talking from a bench and rest. I’m guessing this is during load development?

    I’m don’t shoot a lot of handguns, just hitting steel targets is good enough accuracy for me.

    Yup, although I used to be a damn good bullseye shooter back in the day.
     

    Archeryrob

    Undecided on a great many things
    Mar 7, 2013
    3,064
    Washington Co. - Fairplay
    I’m don’t shoot a lot of handguns, just hitting steel targets is good enough accuracy for me.

    That is where I am at. I have a 6" and 10" at the 20 yard range at home. I tell the wife and kids hit the 10" at 20 and you'll have no issues resolving intruders in the house. Then refine on the 6" to fix trigger control. But it seems I got a loooong way to getting near John. ;)
     

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