Proposal to allow Straight Wall Pistol Cartridges

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  • KIBarrister

    Opinionated Libertarian
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 10, 2013
    3,923
    Kent Island/Centreville
    Hmmmm now 450 Bushmaster or 350 legend. I'm leaning 450 cuz bigger is better.

    Yeah, that was my thought on my socom build - just keep in mind that bigger will punish your optics more. The socom (with similar recoil to a 450) already killed one optic for me.

    I could easily barrel swap the 458 to 450, but I think I will instead go with a 350 upper.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    DNR does not have the authority to change Sunday hunting. Sunday hunting is specifically in the statute, by county, and has to be changed by the entire assembly.

    Some stuff is controlled by county ordinance too. I know Howard has something about needing to be on 10 acre properties in the urban zone to use a shotgun for hunting or 10 acre properties in the rural zone for using rifles.

    I forget the exact language of it. Not sure it would change to allow use of a straight wall rifle or handgun in the urban zone on 10 acres or more (I think its HUNTING period, not deer hunting. All of HoCo has been shotgun only even on private property, so I think that's hunting "other than deer" on what weapon is legal where in the county).

    Admittedly my property just doesn't have a setup for anything other than a 22 or a bow to safely hunt anything even though I am on >4 acres.

    Anyway, seems like it would allow straight wall rifles and handguns in the parts of the county that are not restricted under county ordinance to shotguns only. So the western half you should be good with straight wall rifles and handguns for deer hunting if you are lucky enough to be on >10 acres (which I am not, sadly).

    No plans to ever buy another property in Howard, so private property hunting likely won't impact me. If I buy a property for hunting, its going to be out in Frederick, or better yet in Washington, Garrett or WV.

    But I do really enjoy hunting some of the public land areas near my house and they are shotgun only. Good excuse to get a .357 lever gun or a .45LC lever gun.
     

    tallen702

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 3, 2012
    5,102
    In the boonies of MoCo
    Some stuff is controlled by county ordinance too. I know Howard has something about needing to be on 10 acre properties in the urban zone to use a shotgun for hunting or 10 acre properties in the rural zone for using rifles.

    IIRC, MoCo got smacked down on some of this. If the state and DNR change certain rules, the counties must follow the least restrictive rule vs their own ordinance. For example, when the DNR and state changed minimum bow-hunting distances from occupied dwellings to 50 yards w/o needing permission of the dwelling owner, MoCo tried to keep it out at 100 yards but the state and DNR said that they couldn't preempt the state-level law. MoCo then voted to change it to 50 yards if elevated to make an end-run to prevent complete preemption. This seems to be more for shotgun-only COUNTIES vs split counties. Not sure if HoCo is split (Frederick is with a SGO and Rifle division line) but if it is, it would mean you'd be allowed to use straight-wall pistol rounds to hunt deer with instead of only shotguns.
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    Some stuff is controlled by county ordinance too. I know Howard has something about needing to be on 10 acre properties in the urban zone to use a shotgun for hunting or 10 acre properties in the rural zone for using rifles.

    I forget the exact language of it. Not sure it would change to allow use of a straight wall rifle or handgun in the urban zone on 10 acres or more (I think its HUNTING period, not deer hunting. All of HoCo has been shotgun only even on private property, so I think that's hunting "other than deer" on what weapon is legal where in the county).

    Admittedly my property just doesn't have a setup for anything other than a 22 or a bow to safely hunt anything even though I am on >4 acres.

    Anyway, seems like it would allow straight wall rifles and handguns in the parts of the county that are not restricted under county ordinance to shotguns only. So the western half you should be good with straight wall rifles and handguns for deer hunting if you are lucky enough to be on >10 acres (which I am not, sadly).

    No plans to ever buy another property in Howard, so private property hunting likely won't impact me. If I buy a property for hunting, its going to be out in Frederick, or better yet in Washington, Garrett or WV.

    But I do really enjoy hunting some of the public land areas near my house and they are shotgun only. Good excuse to get a .357 lever gun or a .45LC lever gun.


    Howard IIRC is 300yds from a school and 150 yrds from an occupied structure.


    You should be gtg during firearms season with a shotgun, subject to those restrictions. There are not a lot of public shotgun opportunities in Howard to begin with. Patapsco has some managed hunts (shotgun, lottery draw), Patuxent I think is partly in Howard, otherwise its archery or private property.
     

    kstone803

    Official Meat Getter
    Feb 25, 2009
    3,924
    Ltown in the SMC
    Yeah, that was my thought on my socom build - just keep in mind that bigger will punish your optics more. The socom (with similar recoil to a 450) already killed one optic for me.

    I could easily barrel swap the 458 to 450, but I think I will instead go with a 350 upper.

    Now that I think more about it I really don't gun hunt much anymore but my 14 year old does. And she would prolly do better with a suppressed 350 legend SBR or pistol. Guess I'll add another build to the shopping list.
     

    Jerry M

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 13, 2007
    1,688
    Glen Burnie MD

    kstone803

    Official Meat Getter
    Feb 25, 2009
    3,924
    Ltown in the SMC
    So I've been looking and BCA makes a cheap 16 inch upper that I was leaning towards. But then I thought with the suppressor on the end I want something easier to move around in a doghouse or small blind so started looking for pistol uppers. KAK makes a 12.5 inch barrel that looks good but is sold out. Anyone found any other sub 16 inch options for the Legend?
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    So , are straight wall rifles and pistols still required to meet the respective ft lb requirements , or are they totally their own catagory , without a ft lb requirement ?
     

    Pale Ryder

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 12, 2009
    6,234
    Millersville
    My question also. I have looked but have seen nothing in print that answers this question.

    I think it has not been addressed. The only straight walled cartridge in a rifle I think that might have some difficulties will be certain .357 mag loads most of others have over the 1200 fpe. Handguns I think will stay at 700fpe with a 6" min.

    Is this straight walled cartridge thing settled, some other site discussions say it is not officially approved?
     

    dlharsh

    Active Member
    Feb 13, 2010
    103
    Windsor Mill
    On the registry, it says it is open for comments until 6 July and would be implemented 10 August. This is the same dates for the proposed hunting season comments/approval. I would say it looks promising unless negative comments are submitted. I guess the rules and seasons will be out late this year?
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    I think it has not been addressed. The only straight walled cartridge in a rifle I think that might have some difficulties will be certain .357 mag loads most of others have over the 1200 fpe. Handguns I think will stay at 700fpe with a 6" min.

    Is this straight walled cartridge thing settled, some other site discussions say it is not officially approved?

    I’d be pretty certainly they’ll keep the barrel length and energy requirements.

    Hotter .357 loads in a 6-8” pistol or on a rifle will likely meet the energy requirements. You could certainly reload a hot .357 to the energy requirements without destroying cases.

    Not what I’d want to use for long range deer hunting, but would be just fine for 100yds and less out of a rifle.

    I am on the fence between a .357 lever gun (as I own a .38 handgun and reload for it) or a .45lc. One I’ve got something that can share ammo. The later has more power and at some point I’d like something like a Redhawk in .45acp/.45lc (the former of which I also have guns in).

    Harder to get a silencer that can handle a stout .45lc rifle load. Not as much of a problem with a .357 rifle load.
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    1. as far as the ft-lbs requirements, yes, rifles and pistols still require it. One has to read the MD register in the context of the rest of COMAR. They have not edited any other sections than those posted in the register, which means all other rules remain the same.


    2. I have seen some 350 legend uppers, but honestly I ignored them and went for very nice barrel and BYO with a handguard and SLR adjustable gas block. My only advice is that if you get a 18" barrel or less, get carbine length gas otherwise your gas port will need to be huge. Evidently, gas pressure drops of quickly in 350 legend, because physics or something. When I say huge, I mean >.11 for mid length and it probably cannot be big enough for rifle length gas since the gas opening on a block is .125. Also, get a much faster twist than recommended to stabilize those 265 grain subsonics you are going to want to buy later.


    3. lots of 357 magnum Hunting loads meet the energy requirements, either in a handgun (700 ft lbs) or 16" rifle (1200 ft lbs). http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html Buffalo Bore, Cor Bon, Underwood, all make suitable ammo, to name a few ...
     

    Uncle Duke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 2, 2013
    11,667
    Not Far Enough from the City
    I’d be pretty certainly they’ll keep the barrel length and energy requirements.

    Hotter .357 loads in a 6-8” pistol or on a rifle will likely meet the energy requirements. You could certainly reload a hot .357 to the energy requirements without destroying cases.

    Not what I’d want to use for long range deer hunting, but would be just fine for 100yds and less out of a rifle.

    I am on the fence between a .357 lever gun (as I own a .38 handgun and reload for it) or a .45lc. One I’ve got something that can share ammo. The later has more power and at some point I’d like something like a Redhawk in .45acp/.45lc (the former of which I also have guns in).

    Harder to get a silencer that can handle a stout .45lc rifle load. Not as much of a problem with a .357 rifle load.

    I hope that arbitrary 1200 fpe rifle spec does disappear in any new regulations, but am not holding my breath. Especially with Maryland.
     

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