300 BLK pistol build... possible?

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  • CelticWarrior

    Member
    Feb 16, 2013
    17
    I’m sure this has been asked before but the only threads I could find were dated.

    Is it possible to build a 300 blackout in 7.5 to 10.5 barrel length? I’d love a honey badger, but don’t have the money. Would like a sugar weasel, but even a PSA upper would be nice. Then a suppressor would be in the plans at some point in the future.

    Obviously the first two would be purchased as a pistol, if available to do so in this totalitarian state.

    If I have an ar, could I just throw a PSA upper on it? I’d have to take off the stock so it doesn’t become an SBR, but could I put on a sig brace or would I have to leave the buffer tube bare (not preferable).

    I definitely don’t want to do anything illegal, which is why I’m asking. But the more I look into this I realize just how ass backwards this state is. They continue passing more gun laws and crime goes up. It’s almost like criminals don’t follow the law...


    Been home in quarantine has left me thinking of the possibilities. Love the idea of the BLK with subs
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    You can build a .300 BLK pistol in whatever length you want. You can do a SBR, but it has to be a 10” barrel to meet the MD 29” minimum length requirement.

    You can throw a 16” 300 BLK upper on your existing AR, no problem.
     

    CelticWarrior

    Member
    Feb 16, 2013
    17
    You can build a .300 BLK pistol in whatever length you want. You can do a SBR, but it has to be a 10” barrel to meet the MD 29” minimum length requirement.

    You can throw a 16” 300 BLK upper on your existing AR, no problem.

    Thanks for the quick reply. Forgot about the minimum length requirement. But that’s a thing even for a pistol? A regular pistol certainly doesn’t meet that requirement. How does this pistol require that?

    I was leaning towards 10 inches anyway since I’ve read it has better performance and tends to be quieter (obviously one of the draws). I’d prefer not to SBR it just since it’s an extra $200 and an unknown wait. I’m guessing that minimum length even applies to SBRs though?

    I was into shooting about ten years ago but had kids and then money got tight (could barely afford to shoot the ammo!). And I thought everything was bad then. Wow.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    Thanks for the quick reply. Forgot about the minimum length requirement. But that’s a thing even for a pistol? A regular pistol certainly doesn’t meet that requirement. How does this pistol require that?

    I was leaning towards 10 inches anyway since I’ve read it has better performance and tends to be quieter (obviously one of the draws). I’d prefer not to SBR it just since it’s an extra $200 and an unknown wait. I’m guessing that minimum length even applies to SBRs though?

    I was into shooting about ten years ago but had kids and then money got tight (could barely afford to shoot the ammo!). And I thought everything was bad then. Wow.
    You don’t have to worry about the 29” rule for a pistol. Just a rifle/SBR.
     

    CelticWarrior

    Member
    Feb 16, 2013
    17
    You don’t have to worry about the 29” rule for a pistol. Just a rifle/SBR.

    Thanks again. Just to make sure, there is no issue throwing on a pistol upper (and taking off the stock or replacing it with a sig brace)? I currently have an Hbar which was purchased over ten years ago.
     

    E.Shell

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 5, 2007
    10,243
    Mid-Merlind
    Thanks again. Just to make sure, there is no issue throwing on a pistol upper (and taking off the stock or replacing it with a sig brace)? I currently have an Hbar which was purchased over ten years ago.
    There IS an issue with that...
    You cannot convert a rifle to a handgun. You'll need a lower receiver that was sold as a handgun or an 'Other' and never assembled as a rifle. You will also need a pistol buffer kit/receiver extension....
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    There IS an issue with that...
    You cannot convert a rifle to a handgun. You'll need a lower receiver that was sold as a handgun or an 'Other' and never assembled as a rifle. You will also need a pistol buffer kit/receiver extension....

    Good catch!!!!! I breezed over that part. Sorry OP
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,815
    There IS an issue with that...
    You cannot convert a rifle to a handgun. You'll need a lower receiver that was sold as a handgun or an 'Other' and never assembled as a rifle. You will also need a pistol buffer kit/receiver extension....

    ^^^This

    To expand on this a little;

    Ed's point is, it is illegal to convert a rifle(any gun transferred as such) into a pistol. You would be making a short barreled rifle(SBR) and that is only legal with the appropriate tax stamp(NFA).

    So yes, you can build a pistol AR, but only on a lower that did not start out as a rifle. A standard receiver extension(buffer tube) is okay, be it carbine type, rifle type, or pistol type. You can never put a rifle stock of any kind on that extension, as it exists as a pistol, but any of the approved pistol braces are fine.

    You can, at any time, convert your pistol into a rifle having a barrel length 16" or longer, and then convert it back to pistol. That is legal.
     

    CelticWarrior

    Member
    Feb 16, 2013
    17
    There IS an issue with that...
    You cannot convert a rifle to a handgun. You'll need a lower receiver that was sold as a handgun or an 'Other' and never assembled as a rifle. You will also need a pistol buffer kit/receiver extension....

    Thanks for the catch. I was planning to do this with an hbar rifle lower, but I’ll make sure I don’t use that one. I have another lower I can utilize instead, or I’ll probably just buy another (adding more cost of course).

    But this brings up another question, if I use this other lower, which was purchased as a stand alone completed lower, could I move the 16” rifle upper onto the lower originally purchased as a hbar rifle, this leaving the stand alone lower now free to add a pistol upper? Does that make sense?

    Man this is convoluted, if I’m understanding it correctly
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    Read this : https://www.atf.gov/file/55526/download

    the main rule:
    Held further, a firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3) and (a)(4), is not made
    when parts in a kit that were originally designed to be configured as both a pistol and a
    rifle are assembled or re-assembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA (e.g.,
    as a pistol, or a rifle with a barrel of 16 inches or more in length).

    Held further, a firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3) and (a)(4), is not made
    when a pistol is attached to a part or parts designed to convert the pistol into a rifle with a
    barrel of 16 inches or more in length, and the parts are later unassembled in a configuration
    not regulated under the NFA (e.g., as a pistol).

    Held further, a firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(4), is made when a handgun
    or other weapon with an overall length of less than 26 inches, or a barrel or barrels of less
    than 16 inches in length, is assembled or produced from a weapon originally assembled or
    produced only as a rifle. Such weapons must be registered and are subject to all
    requirements of the NFA.

    Basically if a firearm is transferred as a rifle, it can never become a pistol, even if the stock is replaced with a brace, it can only be a rifle or SBR depending on OAL and barrel length.

    If a receiver is transferred as "other", it can be made into a pistol or rifle, if it is ORIGINALLY made into a rifle, it can never be a pistol, only an SBR or rifle as above.

    If a receiver is ORIGINALLY made into a pistol, it CAN be converted into a rifle, and BACK to a pistol without violating NFA, it CANNOT be converted into an SBR and back without a stamp.

    A pistol must be designed to be fired with 1 hand, so <26" with <16" barrels cannot have a stock or 2nd grip (VFG)

    For this reason, it's a good idea to take a pic of EVERY receiver you assemble with a pistol grip and without a stock to show the "original" configuration is a pistol, so if you happen to "convert" it to a rifle, you may lawfully disassemble the conversion down the road, and return it to it's original form, a lawful pistol.
     

    CelticWarrior

    Member
    Feb 16, 2013
    17
    Read this : https://www.atf.gov/file/55526/download

    the main rule:


    Basically if a firearm is transferred as a rifle, it can never become a pistol, even if the stock is replaced with a brace, it can only be a rifle or SBR depending on OAL and barrel length.

    If a receiver is transferred as "other", it can be made into a pistol or rifle, if it is ORIGINALLY made into a rifle, it can never be a pistol, only an SBR or rifle as above.

    If a receiver is ORIGINALLY made into a pistol, it CAN be converted into a rifle, and BACK to a pistol without violating NFA, it CANNOT be converted into an SBR and back without a stamp.

    A pistol must be designed to be fired with 1 hand, so <26" with <16" barrels cannot have a stock or 2nd grip (VFG)

    For this reason, it's a good idea to take a pic of EVERY receiver you assemble with a pistol grip and without a stock to show the "original" configuration is a pistol, so if you happen to "convert" it to a rifle, you may lawfully disassemble the conversion down the road, and return it to it's original form, a lawful pistol.

    Much appreciated. I’ll probably just buy one new through an FFL this will make sure I do everything correctly. Just wanted to make sure there weren’t additional MD laws when it came to a 300 BLK pistol. So I guess I’ll keep shopping for one, haha.

    As irrational as gun control laws actually are, I suppose it saves me money on more things I can’t have...


    Edit to add another question:
    But if you buy a lower as other and make it a pistol, or as part of a whole pistol, then later throw a rifle upper on it, is it forever a rifle or can it go back again? I know no one would know, but trying to understand the law and WTH the people who wrote it were thinking.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    Much appreciated. I’ll probably just buy one new through an FFL this will make sure I do everything correctly. Just wanted to make sure there weren’t additional MD laws when it came to a 300 BLK pistol. So I guess I’ll keep shopping for one, haha.

    As irrational as gun control laws actually are, I suppose it saves me money on more things I can’t have...


    Edit to add another question:
    But if you buy a lower as other and make it a pistol, or as part of a whole pistol, then later throw a rifle upper on it, is it forever a rifle or can it go back again? I know no one would know, but trying to understand the law and WTH the people who wrote it were thinking.

    The magic only goes one way. If you start it off as a pistol, the magic in the rifle upper does not leave the lower, so it can be a pistol again. If you start it off as a rifle, there never was a pistol magic in it. There can never be any pistol magic in it.
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,815
    Edit to add another question:
    But if you buy a lower as other and make it a pistol, or as part of a whole pistol, then later throw a rifle upper on it, is it forever a rifle or can it go back again? I know no one would know, but trying to understand the law and WTH the people who wrote it were thinking.

    I guess you blew right on by my post...
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,409
    Glen Burnie
    The magic only goes one way. If you start it off as a pistol, the magic in the rifle upper does not leave the lower, so it can be a pistol again. If you start it off as a rifle, there never was a pistol magic in it. There can never be any pistol magic in it.

     

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