Building AR; SBR Rifle ,or Pistol

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  • JChris

    Active Member
    Jan 10, 2021
    157
    Clarksburg
    Not really sure where this post belongs,

    Using a built Pistol for an example:

    If I wanted to build a AR style pistol:

    How do I go about getting it approved by the MSP?
    Do I build it then show it to them?
    Do I buy the parts & get approval to assemble?
    Do I get permission to build 1st?
    Or is it some other way altogether?

    Is it a totally different process for an SBR?

    If there is a thread on this already please direct me.
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,087
    Not really sure where this post belongs,

    Using a built Pistol for an example:

    If I wanted to build a AR style pistol:

    How do I go about getting it approved by the MSP?
    Do I build it then show it to them?
    Do I buy the parts & get approval to assemble?
    Do I get permission to build 1st?
    Or is it some other way altogether?

    Is it a totally different process for an SBR?

    If there is a thread on this already please direct me.

    If you build a pistol, ANY pistol, there is no need what so ever to show it to MSP to be approved. All you have to do is ensure that it is legal to own in Maryland


    Buy the parts, build the pistol, shoot the pistol, enjoy life.

    and yes, it is completely different from building an SBR. With an SBR yo need to fill out a form 1, send in fingerprints and the payment and then wait for approval before you can build it. Yo then have to have it engraved with all of the required information per federal law.
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,810
    Not really sure where this post belongs,

    Using a built Pistol for an example:

    If I wanted to build a AR style pistol:

    How do I go about getting it approved by the MSP?
    You don't have to get it approved.

    Do I build it then show it to them?
    You buy a stripped lower(involving an on line 77r, NICS, and 7 day wait). Once you get your lower, you can then build your AR pistol.

    Do I buy the parts & get approval to assemble?
    You can buy your parts(other than the lower receiver) any time you want. Buy as many parts you want.

    Do I get permission to build 1st?
    You do not need permission to build an AR pistol. Once you pick up your AR lower receiver, that is all the permission you need.

    Or is it some other way altogether?
    Buy lower receiver as stated above, buy parts for pistol, build pistol. Do not put a rifle stock on your pistol. It will become an illegal SBR.



    Is it a totally different process for an SBR?
    Yes, it is. You must first apply for a form 1 stamp through the ATFE in order to build an SBR.


    If there is a thread on this already please direct me.
    There are hundreds of threads on this, but they are lengthy.
     

    SkiPatrolDude

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 24, 2017
    3,331
    Timonium-Lutherville
    No approval needed for the pistol or rifle.

    Purchase a stripped lower, which will be processed as "other" which is neither a pistol or a rifle. This can be built into either a pistol with an arm brace or a rifle with a stock and a 16+ inch (heavy) barrel.

    If your end goal is an SBR, build is as a pistol first or keep it as a stripped lower, submit an ATF E-form 1, which is how you register and make it legal for you to build/own/possess a Short Barreled Rifle. Turn around times are about 1 month, maybe a little less right now. You will need to mail fingerprints and a passport style photo within 10 days of submitting the e-form. Free State Gun Range, for example, can do this for you (call ahead).

    An SBR in Maryland must be 29 inches or longer, so a 10.5 in barrel is the absolute minimum to reach 29'' with a standard buffer tube and adjustable stock. A 10.3 will work but only with a few adjustable stocks that have a slightly greater length of pull when fully extended. With a pinned/welded muzzle device, you could go a bit shorter.

    If you purchase a complete AR style pistol at a local FFL, assuming it is on the registry, you can then SBR it after the fact with a Form 1. That is the fastest route to an SBR if you don't have the capabilities of building your own.
     

    rbird7282

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 6, 2012
    18,531
    Columbia
    ok so wow,
    So your saying I could buy all the parts separately to build a AR pistol and assemble it I would not have to register it?

    What if I had this in the house,
    https://tromix.com/product/458-socom-complete-assembled-upper-micro-right-handed/

    and my Ruger 556 mpr lower, but they were not assembled together. Then there is no violation as long as they are not found assembled together?


    Correct on the pistol, there is no approval/registration required. With regard to an upper with less than a 16” barrel, if you had a lower with a stock and didn’t own a pistol buffer that could possible be considered constructive intent to build an SBR without the necessary stamp.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,810
    ok so wow,
    So your saying I could buy all the parts separately to build a AR pistol and assemble it I would not have to register it?

    What if I had this in the house,
    https://tromix.com/product/458-socom-complete-assembled-upper-micro-right-handed/

    and my Ruger 556 mpr lower, but they were not assembled together. Then there is no violation as long as they are not found assembled together?
    I would caution you this, if this is your only lower, I would not store it with a butt-stock attached to it. That could land you in jail. If you want to have a pistol upper, it would be advisable to have a viable pistol lower on hand upon which to mount it. Otherwise, it could be construed you have an illegal SBR in your possession.
    IANAL
     

    SkiPatrolDude

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 24, 2017
    3,331
    Timonium-Lutherville
    ok so wow,
    So your saying I could buy all the parts separately to build a AR pistol and assemble it I would not have to register it?

    What if I had this in the house,
    https://tromix.com/product/458-socom-complete-assembled-upper-micro-right-handed/

    and my Ruger 556 mpr lower, but they were not assembled together. Then there is no violation as long as they are not found assembled together?

    Don't take offense here but I would take a step back until you have this stuff backwards and forwards.

    A short barreled upper in proximity to a complete "rifle" lower (ie: with a stock) without an upper attached can be construed as "constructive possession" of an SBR.

    If you want to turn your Ruger lower into an SBR. Submit a Form 1 and wait until it is approved and then purchase or build your short barreled upper.

    If you want to own a short barreled upper without registering it an SBR, make sure to have it mated to a lower with an arm brace.
     

    bibitor

    Kulak
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 10, 2017
    1,894
    FEMA Region III
    ok so wow,
    So your saying I could buy all the parts separately to build a AR pistol and assemble it I would not have to register it?

    What if I had this in the house,
    https://tromix.com/product/458-socom-complete-assembled-upper-micro-right-handed/

    and my Ruger 556 mpr lower, but they were not assembled together. Then there is no violation as long as they are not found assembled together?

    Don you have any cause to believe that you may be raided by the BATFEFG?

    It is illegal to assemble a SBR without the proper tax stamp for your lower receiver. It is not illegal to own unregulated gun parts.
     

    JChris

    Active Member
    Jan 10, 2021
    157
    Clarksburg
    I would caution you this, if this is your only lower, I would not store it with a butt-stock attached to it. That could land you in jail. If you want to have a pistol upper, it would be advisable to have a viable pistol lower on hand upon which to mount it. Otherwise, it could be construed you have an illegal SBR in your possession.
    IANAL
    Yes I thought as much,
    I really want that 8" tromix but I didn't want to create a situation, until I could make things hunky dory as it were..
     

    JChris

    Active Member
    Jan 10, 2021
    157
    Clarksburg
    Don you have any cause to believe that you may be raided by the BATFEFG?

    It is illegal to assemble a SBR without the proper tax stamp for your lower receiver. It is not illegal to own unregulated gun parts.

    could I just go ahead and get the SBR stamp for the lower I have?
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    A few clarifications.

    If you only own a rifle lower, and buy a pistol lower, no matter who close they are or if the rifle upper is off the rifle, you could run into issues of constructive possession. As there is no possible legal configuration of a rifle lower and a pistol upper, without a stamp.

    One thing though. You may convert a pistol into a rifle and back again. If you buy or build a rifle, it can only be a rifle or an SBR (with tax stamp). But if you buy a lower, build it into a pistol, then convert it to a rifle, you could have a stocked lower with a rifle and pistol upper. But you would want to parts to make that lower back into a legal pistol.

    With an AR pistol, there is no requirement for an arm brace. There are buffer tubes that are designed to be used without any stock or arm brace.
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,810
    A few clarifications.

    If you only own a rifle lower, and buy a pistol lower, no matter who close they are or if the rifle upper is off the rifle, you could run into issues of constructive possession. As there is no possible legal configuration of a rifle lower and a pistol upper, without a stamp.

    One thing though. You may convert a pistol into a rifle and back again. If you buy or build a rifle, it can only be a rifle or an SBR (with tax stamp). But if you buy a lower, build it into a pistol, then convert it to a rifle, you could have a stocked lower with a rifle and pistol upper. But you would want to parts to make that lower back into a legal pistol.

    With an AR pistol, there is no requirement for an arm brace. There are buffer tubes that are designed to be used without any stock or arm brace.
    I know people who stow their 'extra' ARs in their safes with the uppers separated from the lowers. I see no danger in this.
     

    JChris

    Active Member
    Jan 10, 2021
    157
    Clarksburg
    A few clarifications.

    If you only own a rifle lower, and buy a pistol lower, no matter who close they are or if the rifle upper is off the rifle, you could run into issues of constructive possession. As there is no possible legal configuration of a rifle lower and a pistol upper, without a stamp.

    One thing though. You may convert a pistol into a rifle and back again. If you buy or build a rifle, it can only be a rifle or an SBR (with tax stamp). But if you buy a lower, build it into a pistol, then convert it to a rifle, you could have a stocked lower with a rifle and pistol upper. But you would want to parts to make that lower back into a legal pistol.

    With an AR pistol, there is no requirement for an arm brace. There are buffer tubes that are designed to be used without any stock or arm brace.

    Well that begs the question doesn't it:
    If I have rifle lower in the house, and a 8" pistol upper in the house, even with a tax stamp floating about; it will never add up to 29.01" minimum length
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,810
    Well that begs the question doesn't it:
    If I have rifle lower in the house, and a 8" pistol upper in the house, even with a tax stamp floating about; it will never add up to 29.01" minimum length
    What would the tax stamp be for? In your example, it would not figure into the problem. As for the rest of your example, I think it has been covered. The general consensus is "not recommended".
     

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