Proton VPN set up

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  • woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    I specifically tried to use a OneVanilla.com prepaid card which purportedly would work but it didn’t. I thought about using Bitcoin but that’s not necessarily private either. It’s too bad they don’t take Monero which is anonymous.

    Also I really don’t know where all of the concerns about using a masked card through a debit card come from. I can register without using my real name or address.
    If you want an anonymous VPN in the future, a good option is TORguard. They accept pay garden, so you can buy a $100 gift card at any of the places they allow (with cash), and then use that for a 2 year subscription at torguard. They use the WIREGUARD protocol so speeds are good.

    I got rid of ExpressVPN for that after they got bought out by an Israeli “cyber security” company. So far I’m happy.
     

    ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,500
    God's Country
    If you want an anonymous VPN in the future, a good option is TORguard. They accept pay garden, so you can buy a $100 gift card at any of the places they allow (with cash), and then use that for a 2 year subscription at torguard. They use the WIREGUARD protocol so speeds are good.

    I got rid of ExpressVPN for that after they got bought out by an Israeli “cyber security” company. So far I’m happy.




    I liked Express VPN too it was really fast and there a ton of servers to choose from. But in the end I just felt that Proton is going to be a bit more private. Now that they too have added Wireguard support speeds are as fast at ExpressVPN from my own testing. Proton does also take cash somehow. At this point I figured it’s probably not worth the extra effort yet.

    TORguard is new to me. I just checked out their website and I did notice something interesting.

    Stealth VPN protocols
    Bypass strict VPN blockades with invisible SSL Stealth VPN access. TorGuard offers OpenVPN obfuscation, Stunnel, OpenConnect, and Shadowsocks.

    Does this actually work well in your opinion? I see a ton more Captcha request with Proton than I did with ExpressVPN.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    Does this actually work well in your opinion? I see a ton more Captcha request with Proton than I did with ExpressVPN.
    It is hard to say because I’ve only had it for a few months. When I’m overseas for work I typically double wrap with torguard or expressvpn and another vpn on a travel router (used to be PIA or express vpn). That sort of behavior typically results in more captcha requests than usual, depending on how leaky the personal device is.

    I’ve only been home for a week but so far I can’t say I have more captcha requests than with expressvpn.

    I’m considering setting up an openwrt whole home VPN setup and am seriously considering torguard for that. I may also go with nordVPN just because they are super popular and do well with streaming services. Your success with ProtonVPN and Proton Mail also has me considering getting away from google for good, but I don’t think ProtonVPN is a good choice for whole house VPN based on the reports of captcha requests. It has to be seamless or my wife will rip it out of the wall.
     

    ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,500
    God's Country
    I’m considering setting up an openwrt whole home VPN setup and am seriously considering torguard for that. I may also go with nordVPN just because they are super popular and do well with streaming services. Your success with ProtonVPN and Proton Mail also has me considering getting away from google for good, but I don’t think ProtonVPN is a good choice for whole house VPN based on the reports of captcha requests. It has to be seamless or my wife will rip it out of the wall.

    I have the same issue to consider at home too. I’ve been trying to get my wife to embrace some reasons for being more private online. There is no way she would tolerate captcha on 20% of web pages.

    One solution I’ve been considering is loading ProtonVPN on my Pfsense router but also creating a separate VLAN which does not pass through the VPN. I’ll have our netflix/streaming services route through that. I could create a wifi network just for my wife’s phone and laptop that bypasses the VPN as well.


    The captcha problem could also be due to the strict privacy settings on my browser too. I’m blocking just about everything, and some sites just dont load. If I really don’t need that info, I just go somewhere else.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    I have the same issue to consider at home too. I’ve been trying to get my wife to embrace some reasons for being more private online. There is no way she would tolerate captcha on 20% of web pages.

    One solution I’ve been considering is loading ProtonVPN on my Pfsense router but also creating a separate VLAN which does not pass through the VPN. I’ll have our netflix/streaming services route through that. I could create a wifi network just for my wife’s phone and laptop that bypasses the VPN as well.


    The captcha problem could also be due to the strict privacy settings on my browser too. I’m blocking just about everything, and some sites just dont load. If I really don’t need that info, I just go somewhere else.
    Yeah I have considered going the vlan route, but my background is not really in IT or cybersecurity, just involves a fair amount of networking. I need to find a good tutorial online for setting that up or I will be lost.

    The other issue to consider is that I violated my principles on at home listening devices/collection devices and bought a google nest wifi mesh network for our house. This was for two reasons: 1.) to save myself money while overseas, because if wifi isn’t working in any part of the house that is inconvenient, my wife has proved entirely willing to turn off wifi on her phone and hotspot any devices to it. The mesh network has already paid for itself in lack of data overages. 2.) and this is related to 1, I can troubleshoot the entire network from overseas if I need to. It’s come in handy a m half dozen times so far.

    Point being that for google nest to function optimally, it has to be set to allow the router to collect all that sweet sweet data and sell it to the Chinese. Not sure how it will like being behind a VPN, or if a VPN would do any good besides hiding my traffic from my ISP.

    Anyway once that thing dies I’ll get a mesh network from a less surveillance happy company and redo the whole thing. I was considering getting something simple and then running the whole thing behind a firewalla gold for the convenient UX with WIREGUARD/parental controls/network health monitoring, but their method of defeating NATing via ARP poisoning makes me uncomfortable.
     

    ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,500
    God's Country
    Proton just modified their services a week or so ago. They are still offering free plans, but it looks like they are really trying to push email/vpn packages. More info Here

    I'm a paid email/vpn user and as far as I can tell, it looks like the biggest difference is that bundled subscribers now get 500gb of online encypted storage in addition to VPN and Email services. I don't really see any other significant changes. If you are already paying for another online cloud hosting service like Dropbox, Google or Apple, and DO NOT have a paid Email/VPN service, it may be a good reason to drop the paid cloud storage and use that money for VPN/Email/Cloud Storage.
     

    BeoBill

    Crank in the Third Row
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 3, 2013
    27,064
    南馬里蘭州鮑伊
    Not to overwhelm you but I just stumbled across the Tails OS which appears to be a totally self-contained OS that you install on a USB flash drive. Then you can start up any computer and boot from the USB onto a secure environment. The package includes a full set of basic PC applications that operate securely and a built in Tor browser. The OS automatically blocks all attempts by applications to communicate with the internet without TOR.

    Again I just discovered this about an hr ago while digging deep into the Off Grid Comms discussion.

    I’m downloading it now and will check it out later this week.

    https://tails.boum.org/about/index.en.html


    Edit: if the first link doesn’t work try this one. https://tails.boum.org/
    There are a number of those, including almost all of the major Linux distros which let you "test drive" the distro (including Internet connectivity) without installing it. I've been doing this for years from a dvd.

    Proton allows one free email and VPN per account. I got the email first, and I'm now routinely connecting over their VPN.

    BTW, the "Swiss account" had no choice but to comply with a Swiss warrant.

    ETA: As with any "free" program, support is absolutely critical. By this, I mean:
    How well do you trust the software source: to provide an "unhacked" product (without open backdoors and trojans): to code carefully to avoid "broken" software that allows exploitation; and to patch their product quickly and correctly when an exploit is discovered?
     
    Last edited:

    BeoBill

    Crank in the Third Row
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 3, 2013
    27,064
    南馬里蘭州鮑伊
    The email switchover is daunting, but I’ve come to believe it’s probably a good decision, so I’m going to plow ahead. Like anything else if you listen to some people you would be creating a separate alias and or a forwarding address for every single online business/website that you need to register for. I’m not going that far, but what I’m doing now is downright sloppy and careless. If someone did happen to hack my gmail account I could really be screwed.

    The other thing I was debating was how to pay for the Proton Services. I tried to use a visa gift card but they will not accept that form of payment. I am toying with the idea of bitcoin but still a bit of a PITA. I don’t know if there is really any risk just using my own visa debit card, maybe that’a just me overthinking this too much.

    I’ll post a followup in a few weeks after I make some progress.
    If billionaires can work through Swiss banks you should be able to without worry. Stop overthinking...
     

    BeoBill

    Crank in the Third Row
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 3, 2013
    27,064
    南馬里蘭州鮑伊
    It is hard to say because I’ve only had it for a few months. When I’m overseas for work I typically double wrap with torguard or expressvpn and another vpn on a travel router (used to be PIA or express vpn). That sort of behavior typically results in more captcha requests than usual, depending on how leaky the personal device is.

    I’ve only been home for a week but so far I can’t say I have more captcha requests than with expressvpn.

    I’m considering setting up an openwrt whole home VPN setup and am seriously considering torguard for that. I may also go with nordVPN just because they are super popular and do well with streaming services. Your success with ProtonVPN and Proton Mail also has me considering getting away from google for good, but I don’t think ProtonVPN is a good choice for whole house VPN based on the reports of captcha requests. It has to be seamless or my wife will rip it out of the wall.
    OK, quick VPN tutorial...

    A VPN sets up an encrypted connection (i.e., "tunnel") between your computer and the physical computer that drops your data onto the Internet. Note that this "end point" is NOT your destination! Diagram:

    YOU [VPN]<===============encrypted tunnel==============>[endpoint]<---- your data --->[destination.com]
    Using: <====>{Your ISP}<=======>{ E.P. Internet}<---------------------->
    Data:
    === encrypted --------- Unencrypted (clear)

    All it does is show the endpoint as the computer you're using to connect to the Internet instead of your ISP or your computer. And your ISP will only see you connect to the endpoint, NOT your destination. If you want an "end-to-end" tunnel, your destination must be the end point of the VPN, connected directly to the other end of the tunnel (like the dotted line in the diagram). Clear now?
     

    ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,500
    God's Country
    If billionaires can work through Swiss banks you should be able to without worry. Stop overthinking...

    That post was from last September. I did ditch several gmail, hotmail and yahoo mail accounts and consolidated to proton. My spam has all about gone to zero. I cannot say zero because one did get through. I did create a few free proton accounts that are not tied to my name or bank account in any way. I use those for any time an email address is needed to access online content, and I do not feel the need to disclose anything linked to me personally.
     

    BeoBill

    Crank in the Third Row
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 3, 2013
    27,064
    南馬里蘭州鮑伊
    I must admit that Proton has the best spam/malware mail filters that I have heard about.

    About the only class of bad guy that could figure out your exact strategy would be at the Nation State level. And it would have to be using Traffic Analysis. I doubt you're wanted that badly.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    OK, quick VPN tutorial...

    A VPN sets up an encrypted connection (i.e., "tunnel") between your computer and the physical computer that drops your data onto the Internet. Note that this "end point" is NOT your destination! Diagram:

    YOU [VPN]<===============encrypted tunnel==============>[endpoint]<---- your data --->[destination.com]
    Using: <====>{Your ISP}<=======>{ E.P. Internet}<---------------------->
    Data:
    === encrypted --------- Unencrypted (clear)

    All it does is show the endpoint as the computer you're using to connect to the Internet instead of your ISP or your computer. And your ISP will only see you connect to the endpoint, NOT your destination. If you want an "end-to-end" tunnel, your destination must be the end point of the VPN, connected directly to the other end of the tunnel (like the dotted line in the diagram). Clear now?
    Super intense explanation, but the issue at hand is that when IP addresses of endpoints get identified as VPN endpoints (or IP addresses from which some kind of nefarious activity has used as an endpoint, as such activity will often use a VPN service as an endpoint depending on level of sophistication) by cloudflare or other automated protection services provided by a website’s host, they tend to trigger “are you a person” queries, of which “captcha” category verification procedures are a type.

    That is annoying, and will cause my wife to turn off wifi on her phone, which defeats the purpose of paying for internet service.
     

    BeoBill

    Crank in the Third Row
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 3, 2013
    27,064
    南馬里蘭州鮑伊
    So? You can't do anything about that. And a VPN (which this thread is about) can't help you there either. I suggest you submit your complaint on the form below:

    .
     

    ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,500
    God's Country
    Super intense explanation, but the issue at hand is that when IP addresses of endpoints get identified as VPN endpoints (or IP addresses from which some kind of nefarious activity has used as an endpoint, as such activity will often use a VPN service as an endpoint depending on level of sophistication) by cloudflare or other automated protection services provided by a website’s host, they tend to trigger “are you a person” queries, of which “captcha” category verification procedures are a type.

    That is annoying, and will cause my wife to turn off wifi on her phone, which defeats the purpose of paying for internet service.

    I have the same issue. What appears to be happening is that some VPN IP address get flagged by content providers or intermediary services as VPN hosts. Weather or not they are abused by nefarious players I’m not sure. I think it’s likely to be more of an issue with free VPN providers, but it does happen several times per week even with my paid ProtonVPN. I will say that if I have my browser set to block cookies or trackers it’s even more likely.

    There is a workaround available with some routers. On my PFSense router I could create a wifi VLAN network which could be setup to bypass the VPN connection. Then I could just have my wife connect to that specific WiFi network. For now since it’s just the two of us mostly using our network, It’s just been easier to run the Proton app on my own devices.
     

    BeoBill

    Crank in the Third Row
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 3, 2013
    27,064
    南馬里蘭州鮑伊
    I have the same issue. What appears to be happening is that some VPN IP address get flagged by content providers or intermediary services as VPN hosts. Weather or not they are abused by nefarious players I’m not sure. I think it’s likely to be more of an issue with free VPN providers, but it does happen several times per week even with my paid ProtonVPN. I will say that if I have my browser set to block cookies or trackers it’s even more likely.

    There is a workaround available with some routers. On my PFSense router I could create a wifi VLAN network which could be setup to bypass the VPN connection. Then I could just have my wife connect to that specific WiFi network. For now since it’s just the two of us mostly using our network, It’s just been easier to run the Proton app on my own devices.
    To save you some work, the VPN on a box begins at your Ethernet connection, not your router. When I fire up Proton I can't connect to my NAS.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    To save you some work, the VPN on a box begins at your Ethernet connection, not your router. When I fire up Proton I can't connect to my NAS.
    100% agree that this is the way to do it if running a whole house VPN. Keeps everything nice and tidy internally.
     

    AssMan

    Meh...
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 27, 2011
    16,218
    Somewhere on the James River, VA
    Just a PSA...

    Increasingly, I've been running into sites that block VPN traffic - which is annoying. Proton has released its new "Stealth" protocol that is supposed to mitigate VPN detection and traffic blocking. Simply update to the latest Proton version and select the Stealth protocol, then browse as normal. Depending on your OS you may need to adjust some configurations.
     

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