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  • Johnny5k

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 24, 2020
    1,021
    I have no idea the particulars of the case, or whether a different charge would have resulted in penalties. All I know is that one criminal, and he was a criminal with all kinds of priors, got off of a concealed weapons charge, quite a long while ago, because his gun was an antique,

    Do I recommend it? Hell no.

    "It can get you into trouble but it can't get you out" - A very wise man in black.
     

    Mark75H

    MD Wear&Carry Instructor
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 25, 2011
    17,173
    Outside the Gates
    If things have gotten bad enough to openly carry a muzzleloading pistol, just openly carry or concealed carry that regular handgun. Maryland has an exemption for transporting a handgun due to apprehended danger. Not sure if there has ever been case law on that. But “the shit has hit the fan” could probably be considered immediate fear for your or other’s life or safety.

    Can you point out where that is in MD law?
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,881
    @ the istance Johnny5k refers , I don't know that case , but undoubtedly the arresting officer initially , and ASA subsequently charged under 4-203 , in the assumption being that the handgun shaped object was in fact a Handgun .

    Then at Trial , the defense introduced evidence that the Handgun shaped object was Not a Handgun , but rather an Antique , or Replica thereof .

    ADA , and probably Arresting Officer slap their heads , that they should have charged under 4-101 instead of 4-203 , but it was too late for that trial , and too embarassing to recharge defendant.

    Added - As gun people we're curious what was the gun shaped object . If it were a flintlock or 1851 Navy , the ASA was stupid . If it were something like an Owl Head made on both sides of 1899 , or a first year production New Service , it would have been tricky .
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    Can you point out where that is in MD law?

    Sorry I was forgetting handguns need not apply

    It’s under the statute for carrying a concealed dangerous weapon, as Maryland exempts handguns and penknives as dangerous weapons under the statute.

    an individual who carries the weapon as a reasonable precaution against apprehended danger, subject to the right of the court in an action arising under this section to judge the reasonableness of the carrying of the weapon, and the proper occasion for carrying it, under the evidence in the case.
     

    Johnny5k

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 24, 2020
    1,021
    @ the istance Johnny5k refers , I don't know that case , but undoubtedly the arresting officer initially , and ASA subsequently charged under 4-203 , in the assumption being that the handgun shaped object was in fact a Handgun .

    Then at Trial , the defense introduced evidence that the Handgun shaped object was Not a Handgun , but rather an Antique , or Replica thereof .

    ADA , and probably Arresting Officer slap their heads , that they should have charged under 4-101 instead of 4-203 , but it was too late for that trial , and too embarassing to recharge defendant.

    Added - As gun people we're curious what was the gun shaped object . If it were a flintlock or 1851 Navy , the ASA was stupid . If it were something like an Owl Head made on both sides of 1899 , or a first year production New Service , it would have been tricky .

    I agree, that it was likely a mischarge, as you describe.

    I wish I knew the answer to any of those. The implication when I heard the story made me think it was something like an 1851 Navy. I don't want to get into who the attorney I knew was, or how I knew him. He had a very unenviable position, and kept his head down professionally, from what I could tell. The way he would put it, it was his job to make sure the ADA etc did their jobs correctly. He has been deceased for some time, if you hadn't gathered that yet.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,881
    To potentially cut him some slack , there were a bunch of modest priced Top Break and Solid Frame ( not swing out) revolvers mfg in .22, .32, and .38 ( not Special) in 1880's to 1920's . H&R and Iver Johnson sold under own names , their own secondary brands ( notably US Revolver Co) , hundreds of Store and Distributor Brands , plus countless domestic and foreign knockoff .

    Many didn't have s/n . And in 1899 , nobody knew that.would be an important distinction 69 years later.

    So for many of those can't be definitely dated . With detailed knowledge of different models and variants , and changes in markings , start and stop date ranges can be determined . ie , certain model name stopped in 1897 , or certain Mfg Address changed in 1902 , etc .

    If the Suspect realized , he would have been vocal at the time to try to not get arrested . So I'm guessing the Defense Lawyer was knowledgeable enough collector to recognize the possibility , and either consult standard reference works , or get Expert Witness .
     

    mac1_131

    MSI Executive Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 31, 2009
    3,280
    Yeah, "Apprehended Danger" is G&S for obtaining a carry permit, it doesn't substitute in the moment for not having a permit in the first place.
    Actually, it is in there. I didn't know until I read this thread.

    Not sure I want to test drive it. It's an affirmative defense kind of thing.
     

    ras_oscar

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 23, 2014
    1,666
    Since this thread has gathered 3 pages of replies, I would not rely on a LEO to be familiar with the laws if you were encountered. Don't do it. Yo may beat the rap but you can't beat the ride.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,881
    Conceal your antique ? No possibility of being actually legal . If you did have a W&C , in ignorance of the contrary , might be overlooked .

    OC your Cap & Ball Revolver ? Do a search of the numerous Long Gun OC threads , and the discussion points are the same .
     

    Johnny5k

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 24, 2020
    1,021
    Since this thread has gathered 3 pages of replies, I would not rely on a LEO to be familiar with the laws if you were encountered. Don't do it. Yo may beat the rap but you can't beat the ride.

    That's always true, no matter what. The ride can only have negatives for you, and even in the off chance there is some negative for the one giving the ride, those repercussions necessarily have to be worse for the rider, before it ever becomes an issue for the taker.
     

    IronEye

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 10, 2018
    790
    Howard County
    The following is the definition from the current Montgomery County law that prohibits possession of firearms in all those "sensitive places". I went down a rabbit hole thinking that perhaps an antique cartridge revolver would be a loophole in the law. For the purposes of this law it would seem that a Cap and Ball revolver, antique or a BB gun would be covered by the definition of "Gun or Firearm".

    57-1. Definitions.
    Gun or firearm: Any rifle, shotgun, revolver, pistol, ghost gun, undetectable gun, air gun, air rifle or any similar mechanism by whatever name known which is designed to expel a projectile through a gun barrel
    by the action of any explosive, gas, compressed air, spring or elastic.
     

    Mark75H

    MD Wear&Carry Instructor
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 25, 2011
    17,173
    Outside the Gates
    Yes, that is their intention. BB guns are dangerous in MoCo. Even Nerf guns have been banned there for years.
     

    TapRackBang

    Cheaper Than Diamonds
    Jan 14, 2012
    1,919
    Bel Air
    You weren't looking for a "loophole", you were looking for a way to defend yourself while complying with the law.

    "Loophole" is a terrible term they will use to say you are trying to circumvent the law. We should not use it.

    The question is where is "gun barrel" defined? If you use a cap to shoot a spit wad through a steel soda straw, you haven't broken the law, have you?
     

    Threeband

    The M1 Does My Talking
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 30, 2006
    25,234
    Carroll County
    He's looking for Magic Workaround that will allow him to carry without a W&C. It doesn't exist.
    He might as well either comply with the law, or practice effective concealment.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,881
    He's looking for Magic Workaround that will allow him to carry without a W&C. It doesn't exist.
    He might as well either comply with the law, or practice effective concealment.

    No . He's looking for " a means of compliance not originally intended by MoCo Council " , as regards 21-22 .

    But as noted , the wording would apply to everything that goes Bang .
     

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