PA Apollo rectical for 65cm

Racer Doug14 · Nov 7, 2021

Looking at the mid level version that's $700. Anyone have one? Glx 4-16×50ffp

outrider58 · Nov 7, 2021

You mean reticle right? Might ask the mods to fix that before this thread gets out of hand...

Inigoes · Nov 7, 2021

When would that ever happen?

E.Shell · Nov 7, 2021

I'm much more concerned about whatever he's shooting that's 65 centimeters.

EarnestT · Nov 7, 2021

Let the games begin!

Racer Doug14 · Nov 7, 2021

So helpful. Wouldn't be MDS any other way

erwos · Nov 8, 2021

So, here's my hot take: BDC reticles for precision rifles do not make a ton of sense unless it's for a hunting application. The reality is that load, barrel, etc. differences are mean that dialing is going to be a far superior option for getting those first round hits.

Racer Doug14 · Nov 9, 2021

erwos said:
So, here's my hot take: BDC reticles for precision rifles do not make a ton of sense unless it's for a hunting application. The reality is that load, barrel, etc. differences are mean that dialing is going to be a far superior option for getting those first round hits.

Have you checked out any reviews on it? Seems stupid proof and very intuitive. You can still "dial" your shot. It has mil sub-tensions.

LGood48 · Nov 9, 2021

E.Shell said:
I'm much more concerned about whatever he's shooting that's 65 centimeters.

Shot in the dark here, but could he have meant 6.5 Creedmoor???

erwos · Nov 9, 2021

Racer Doug14 said:
Have you checked out any reviews on it? Seems stupid proof and very intuitive. You can still "dial" your shot. It has mil sub-tensions.

The reticle does not seem conducive to first round hits at 1000yds or further, at least in my own experience doing so. I am hardly a Fudd-style purist when it comes to reticles; my Razor Gen3 uses the MOA-BDC reticle and I get a ton of mileage out of it.

Just to give this a fair shake, I did go and read the manual. Personally, I see that chevron and just think it's too big for what I'd want to be doing (which is placing the point on the target after dialing). I see the BDC and wonder who realistically expects that it's going to work well enough for a 1000yd shot. 500-600yds, sure. But 1000 is a whole new ballgame, even with 6.5CM. If you're happy to walk things in, this may work alright. If you have delusions of making first round hits - which I'd submit is the real test of a rifle/ammo system - I don't think this is going to work well.

Again, if this were a scope oriented towards a hunting application, I'd probably be more forgiving. But I am skeptical that very many people will be taking that reticle as far as it claims it will go. (Of course, probably very few of these scopes will be shot beyond a few hundred yards anyways...)

woodline · Nov 9, 2021

The Apollo 6.5 creedmoor / .224 Valkyrie scope seems like a cartridge specific Christmas tree reticle. Not really sure there’s a major advantage to doing a cartridge specific Christmas tree reticle vs just going with a mil/mil Christmas tree reticle akin to the Horus H59. You might want to chrono your intended load and send the bullet and muzzle velocity info to primary arms to see if the reticle will line up correctly before you buy.

The price is in line with the Gen 2 Vortex Viper PST scopes of similar magnification, but they run a mil reticle with Christmas tree style mil holds instead of having cartridge specific holds. Haven’t looked through a primary arms Glx and PST Gen 1 or 2 at the same time, but given they are both made in the
Philippines I suspect they are made at the same plant and have similar glass. Prob just about the same scope as a Viper PST Gen 2.

It’s probably fine, but I like mil holds on a Christmas tree reticle vs something cartridge specific.

Racer Doug14 · Nov 9, 2021

erwos said:
The reticle does not seem conducive to first round hits at 1000yds or further, at least in my own experience doing so. I am hardly a Fudd-style purist when it comes to reticles; my Razor Gen3 uses the MOA-BDC reticle and I get a ton of mileage out of it.

Just to give this a fair shake, I did go and read the manual. Personally, I see that chevron and just think it's too big for what I'd want to be doing (which is placing the point on the target after dialing). I see the BDC and wonder who realistically expects that it's going to work well enough for a 1000yd shot. 500-600yds, sure. But 1000 is a whole new ballgame, even with 6.5CM. If you're happy to walk things in, this may work alright. If you have delusions of making first round hits - which I'd submit is the real test of a rifle/ammo system - I don't think this is going to work well.

Again, if this were a scope oriented towards a hunting application, I'd probably be more forgiving. But I am skeptical that very many people will be taking that reticle as far as it claims it will go. (Of course, probably very few of these scopes will be shot beyond a few hundred yards anyways...)

Fair enough. When I finish my build, the plan is to go the Peacemaker. I'll video as much as possible.

erwos · Nov 9, 2021

fbi_surveillance_van said:
It’s probably fine, but I like mil holds on a Christmas tree reticle vs something cartridge specific.

I think there's a place for a BDC christmas tree, but it's not on a precision rifle. That's why this reticle rubs me the wrong way, or perhaps I should say the marketing rubs me the wrong way. It's not a bad reticle for what it's trying to do, but that's not a real world application in my experience.

woodline · Nov 9, 2021

erwos said:
The reticle does not seem conducive to first round hits at 1000yds or further, at least in my own experience doing so. I am hardly a Fudd-style purist when it comes to reticles; my Razor Gen3 uses the MOA-BDC reticle and I get a ton of mileage out of it.

Just to give this a fair shake, I did go and read the manual. Personally, I see that chevron and just think it's too big for what I'd want to be doing (which is placing the point on the target after dialing). I see the BDC and wonder who realistically expects that it's going to work well enough for a 1000yd shot. 500-600yds, sure. But 1000 is a whole new ballgame, even with 6.5CM. If you're happy to walk things in, this may work alright. If you have delusions of making first round hits - which I'd submit is the real test of a rifle/ammo system - I don't think this is going to work well.

Again, if this were a scope oriented towards a hunting application, I'd probably be more forgiving. But I am skeptical that very many people will be taking that reticle as far as it claims it will go. (Of course, probably very few of these scopes will be shot beyond a few hundred yards anyways...)

I haven’t kept up with PRC trends, but the last time I played around with that rule set, Christmas tree reticles were still extremely popular given the limited time per stage. Maybe people are dialing right now though. For static shooting positions, I agree that dialing is typically best.

As far as a chevron reticle goes, I have one and it works better than you would think. I want to say 9 hole reviews went into a deep dive on it at some point, but from my memory (I haven’t used that particular scope in awhile because I fell into upgraded glass by chance) the best thing to do is treat the tip of the chevron as an infinite aiming point and zero the rifle right at the tip so that the reticle is never obscuring the target. I think the use case is more appropriate to an SFP LPVO where the reticle is coarser and you don’t want to obscure the target, but it worked fine on a 3-18 ffp too.

ETA I actually zeroed my Trijicon Accupoint 1-4 the same way and am pretty happy with the results so far. Again that is for a SFP LPVO with an extremely coarse reticle and not applicable to OP’s use case, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

erwos · Nov 9, 2021

fbi_surveillance_van said:
I haven’t kept up with PRC trends, but the last time I played around with that rule set, Christmas tree reticles were still extremely popular given the limited time per stage. Maybe people are dialing right now though. For bench rest shooting, I agree that dialing is typically best.

But no one's using a BDC christmas tree in PRS. I run a Tango6 3-18x with DEV-L MOA reticle and it's fantastic, but I would not have the same opinion if it were a BDC reticle.

woodline · Nov 9, 2021

erwos said:
But no one's using a BDC christmas tree in PRS. I run a Tango6 3-18x with DEV-L MOA reticle and it's fantastic, but I would not have the same opinion if it were a BDC reticle.

Gotcha, I misunderstood the point of your post completely. I thought you were against Christmas tree reticles, but you don’t like BDC reticles for PRS. Understand now and agree.

Doctor_M · Nov 9, 2021

Boy did I read that thread title wrong.

Pinecone · Nov 24, 2021

The problem with any BDC setup is that it is good for ONE load.

Change your load, the drops change and your BDC reticle no longer matches what the bullet does.

Racer Doug14 · Nov 28, 2021

Update.

I got a Vortex PST II 5-25×50 FFP EBR7c MRAD for $800 OTD.

Racer Doug14 · Dec 5, 2021

Arrived yesterday

PA Apollo rectical for 65cm

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