MD AR Question (Sorry)

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  • Bananas79

    Member
    Apr 11, 2021
    58
    I know this has been answered / discussed probably 10,000x by now... just having issues digging it out. I basically have 2 questions

    1) Is this a true statement -- that because Gas Piston ARs are not entirely compatible with DI ARs... that all Gas Piston ARs are legal in MD (that are not called out on MSP list)
    1.a - Are there any legal DI nonHBAR (assume no)
    1.b - Are there any illegal Gas Pistons in MD.. I assume yes - think there are some HK and SIGs off top of head, but guess im getting at, I think 1.a is blanket, but if there is a 1.b not specifically listed on MSP, that it should be OK?

    2) MD basically has a Heavy Barrel requirement for all DI ARs -- is this the case if I get a tax stamp for SBR? My last application failed for a 9" 300 BLK, I thought it failed because I stupidly listed the OAL with stock collapsed at 22.5. But now wondering if it also failed because I listed an alternative barrel config of 11.5 & 14.5 @ 5.56. Now thinking of just making my 9" 300 a pistol. But still want a 11.5 or 14.5 5.56, rifle... but trying to understand IF this can be a legal SBR in MD if its not a HBAR (ive never seen a 'heavy' barrel under 16" (MD IS SO ANNOYING.. and Fraking STUPID)

    3) Just to stay out of trouble... here is a theoretical question. IF I own a pre 2013 Lower (that I got somewhat recently).. and I find... in my 'closet' or shed or something a pre 2013 Non HBAR upper -- can I mount these and have a legal grandfathered non HBar rifile?

    Thanks for the help gang.... Can't wait til I can talk the wife into moving the frak out of here... WVA, TN or SC... thats the dream :-P
     
    I know this has been answered / discussed probably 10,000x by now... just having issues digging it out. I basically have 2 questions

    1) Is this a true statement -- that because Gas Piston ARs are not entirely compatible with DI ARs... that all Gas Piston ARs are legal in MD (that are not called out on MSP list)
    1.a - Are there any legal DI nonHBAR (assume no)
    1.b - Are there any illegal Gas Pistons in MD.. I assume yes - think there are some HK and SIGs off top of head, but guess im getting at, I think 1.a is blanket, but if there is a 1.b not specifically listed on MSP, that it should be OK?

    2) MD basically has a Heavy Barrel requirement for all DI ARs -- is this the case if I get a tax stamp for SBR? My last application failed for a 9" 300 BLK, I thought it failed because I stupidly listed the OAL with stock collapsed at 22.5. But now wondering if it also failed because I listed an alternative barrel config of 11.5 & 14.5 @ 5.56. Now thinking of just making my 9" 300 a pistol. But still want a 11.5 or 14.5 5.56, rifle... but trying to understand IF this can be a legal SBR in MD if its not a HBAR (ive never seen a 'heavy' barrel under 16" (MD IS SO ANNOYING.. and Fraking STUPID)

    3) Just to stay out of trouble... here is a theoretical question. IF I own a pre 2013 Lower (that I got somewhat recently).. and I find... in my 'closet' or shed or something a pre 2013 Non HBAR upper -- can I mount these and have a legal grandfathered non HBar rifile?

    Thanks for the help gang.... Can't wait til I can talk the wife into moving the frak out of here... WVA, TN or SC... thats the dream :-P

    #1- I don't know.
    #2- Must be at least 29.0" with the stock fully extended.
    #3- Lowers owned prior to 10/1/2013 can be legally built with any barrel profile (HBAR not required)
     

    camo556

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 29, 2021
    2,634
    1 is most (see 1b)
    1.a. is yes, some DI are legal. Apparently, based on some searching, some DI guns are legal due to proprietary design. KAC SR15 and LWRC come to mind (there are others). Also Ruger, Wyndham, and some makers label their barrels as heavy, even though they are lighter than other not-heavy barrels. An HBAR is whatever the manufacturer says it is.
    1.b. is: if its banned by name or is a Copycat (typically folding stock + flash hider + detachable mag = too many evil features), yes. However, the FH can be removed.. Are there SIG pistons banned by name? I don't think so. I think that the issue is that they are Copycats, so just remove the FH (or get a fixed stock if you plan to supress) and you are gtg.
     

    USArmyJoe

    Pretty good shot
    Oct 5, 2021
    163
    AA County
    1) Is this a true statement -- that because Gas Piston ARs are not entirely compatible with DI ARs... that all Gas Piston ARs are legal in MD (that are not called out on MSP list)
    1.a - Are there any legal DI nonHBAR (assume no)
    1.b - Are there any illegal Gas Pistons in MD.. I assume yes - think there are some HK and SIGs off top of head, but guess im getting at, I think 1.a is blanket, but if there is a 1.b not specifically listed on MSP, that it should be OK?

    2) MD basically has a Heavy Barrel requirement for all DI ARs -- is this the case if I get a tax stamp for SBR? My last application failed for a 9" 300 BLK, I thought it failed because I stupidly listed the OAL with stock collapsed at 22.5. But now wondering if it also failed because I listed an alternative barrel config of 11.5 & 14.5 @ 5.56. Now thinking of just making my 9" 300 a pistol. But still want a 11.5 or 14.5 5.56, rifle... but trying to understand IF this can be a legal SBR in MD if its not a HBAR (ive never seen a 'heavy' barrel under 16" (MD IS SO ANNOYING.. and Fraking STUPID)

    3) Just to stay out of trouble... here is a theoretical question. IF I own a pre 2013 Lower (that I got somewhat recently).. and I find... in my 'closet' or shed or something a pre 2013 Non HBAR upper -- can I mount these and have a legal grandfathered non HBar rifile?

    Thanks for the help gang.... Can't wait til I can talk the wife into moving the frak out of here... WVA, TN or SC... thats the dream :-P

    1) That is correct.

    1a) If they are not 5.56/.223 caliber, that rifle does nto need an HBAR. AR pistols are also not DI rifles, so you can have them in 5.56/.223 and not need an HBAR.

    1b) Any not listed by name in the law are fine. The MSP "Reviewed Firearm" list is known to not be accurate nor legally binding. It is meant to be a "handy guide" that has multiple inaccuracies, redundancies, and other errors.

    2) The HBAR requirement is only for 5.56/.223 DI ARs that are parts-compatible with the Colt ARs banned by name in the statue. Your SBR probably failed the Maryland length test. You did not need an HBAR on that SBR.

    3) AFAIK, the upper is immaterial there, and if the lower was pre-2013 then it is grandfathered for the HBAR requirement. You can put any 16"+ upper on there you want and it is good to go. You can also convert it to any SBR you want, but that is a redundant step in MD.
     

    camo556

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 29, 2021
    2,634
    My last application failed for a 9" 300 BLK, I thought it failed because I stupidly listed the OAL with stock collapsed at 22.5. But now wondering if it also failed because I listed an alternative barrel config of 11.5 & 14.5 @ 5.56.

    Also: 1-The OAL length is measured with the stock extended. And, the OAL in all configurations must be >29".
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,881
    Meanwhile @ #3 -

    To be Grandfathered , it has to have been owned by YOU before 10/1/ 13 . An older rifle/ lower aquired by you post Oct 1 does NOT count .
     

    Johnny5k

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 24, 2020
    1,021
    Meanwhile @ #3 -

    To be Grandfathered , it has to have been owned by YOU before 10/1/ 13 . An older rifle/ lower aquired by you post Oct 1 does NOT count .

    I'm curious about this as well. I was under the impression that there is no way to legally acquire a pre ban lower. Is there an exception for inheriting one?
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,881
    Opps , my bad .

    Banned firearms can be inherited . But the previous owner must actually die , giving things away because you're older , no longer shoot , etc don't count .

    Of course you can buy/ aquire other than inheritance a pre - 2013 lower today . But it will no longer have Grandfather status , and must be configured as FSA compliant .
     

    Bananas79

    Member
    Apr 11, 2021
    58
    I'm curious about this as well. I was under the impression that there is no way to legally acquire a pre ban lower. Is there an exception for inheriting one?

    Well, you can get a legally get preban lower if it comes with an HBAR ---

    lol... and one of my fav MD law oddities.. is a preban does not require a waiting period, while a post pan does -- would love to understand what logical path arrived at that conclusion
     

    rseymorejr

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 28, 2011
    26,015
    Harford County
    Well, you can get a legally get preban lower if it comes with an HBAR ---

    lol... and one of my fav MD law oddities.. is a preban does not require a waiting period, while a post pan does -- would love to understand what logical path arrived at that conclusion
    All AR15 lowers are subject to the waiting period
     

    SkiPatrolDude

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 24, 2017
    3,331
    Timonium-Lutherville
    Well, you can get a legally get preban lower if it comes with an HBAR ---

    lol... and one of my fav MD law oddities.. is a preban does not require a waiting period, while a post pan does -- would love to understand what logical path arrived at that conclusion

    I don't think this is correct.

    Considering that all long-gun transfers in MD must now go through an FFL, the "pre ban" lower would now be a "post ban" lower, having been transferred post October 2013.
     

    Bananas79

    Member
    Apr 11, 2021
    58
    #1- I don't know.
    #2- Must be at least 29.0" with the stock fully extended.
    #3- Lowers owned prior to 10/1/2013 can be legally built with any barrel profile (HBAR not required)

    #3 -- can a lower owned pre 13' be paired with a post 13' upper? Or does it have to be in its original configuration?

    And if so, What if your lower was purchased as a colt lower (pre-13) -- not a full rifle? I have a Colt lower produced in 1994 -- still not clear if it was pre/post 94 ban. Found in one book that it was pre and another that it was post.. but that is superfluous to this thought line
     

    Bananas79

    Member
    Apr 11, 2021
    58
    I was talking about the waiting period ...

    If you buy a pre 2013 HBAR and have it sent to your FFL - there is no Waiting Period. But if it was produced after 2013, there is the 7 day waiting period.

    Which makes no sense to me...
     

    rseymorejr

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 28, 2011
    26,015
    Harford County
    I was talking about the waiting period ...

    If you buy a pre 2013 HBAR and have it sent to your FFL - there is no Waiting Period. But if it was produced after 2013, there is the 7 day waiting period.

    Which makes no sense to me...

    Lowers yes, complete rifles no
     

    Bananas79

    Member
    Apr 11, 2021
    58
    All AR15 lowers are subject to the waiting period

    Right... I said you could get a lower with an HBAR... meaning a lower and upper together... a HBAR rifle. And if that HBAR rifle is pre 13' there is no waiting period. If that is not the case, Ive got two FFLs that have made serious boo-boos
     

    camo556

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 29, 2021
    2,634
    Right... I said you could get a lower with an HBAR... meaning a lower and upper together... a HBAR rifle. And if that HBAR rifle is pre 13' there is no waiting period. If that is not the case, Ive got two FFLs that have made serious boo-boos

    not quite. There is a waiting period if you buy a stripped AR15 lower. If the lower is completed with a stock dealers are treating it like a complete rifle (cash and carry, no wait). You can only assemble it into a legal configuration (hbar rifle, piston rifle, whatever). If you buy a complete rifle, no wait either. There is no wait for a complete rifle regardless of vintage.
     

    SkiPatrolDude

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 24, 2017
    3,331
    Timonium-Lutherville
    Right... I said you could get a lower with an HBAR... meaning a lower and upper together... a HBAR rifle. And if that HBAR rifle is pre 13' there is no waiting period. If that is not the case, Ive got two FFLs that have made serious boo-boos

    HBAR AR15's do not have a waiting period. Not pre ban era models nor post ban.

    As of this post, you can walk into an FFL and purchase a MD compliant HBAR AR15 and walk out with it the same day (assuming you pass a BC).
     

    Johnny5k

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 24, 2020
    1,021
    Opps , my bad .

    Banned firearms can be inherited . But the previous owner must actually die , giving things away because you're older , no longer shoot , etc don't count .

    Of course you can buy/ aquire other than inheritance a pre - 2013 lower today . But it will no longer have Grandfather status , and must be configured as FSA compliant .

    Ah yes, that makes sense and jives with what I have read.

    Of course, in this context we meant acquiring one with the idea of being able to put it in a preban configuration.

    Sounds like that is only doable by inheritance, through a bona fide estate (actually dead). Thats what I thought, but thanks for the clarification.
     

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