Utah permit

Minuteman · Feb 22, 2014

Can a person with a Utah permit get a FL permit without additional classroom instruction? :

swinokur said:
Yes, but if you take the UT class, you must also ask the instructor to conduct a live fire portion in addition. FL requires live fire. It's in the FL statute.

Charles Guggenheimer said:
In the past, Florida allowed those taking their approved training classes to accept proof of military service discharge (like a DD214) instead of live fire.

Yes. and Yes, with proof of military service or proof of live fire. That's what I thought, thank you both!

ProShooter · Feb 26, 2014

swinokur said:
Yes, but if you take the UT class, you must also ask the instructor to conduct a live fire portion in addition. FL requires live fire. It's in the FL statute.

swinokur said:
That's because laws are written to prohibit acts, not allow them. If it's not banned, it's permitted.

Correct on both counts! Give that man a cigar!

swinokur · Feb 26, 2014

woot !

scrub buck · Mar 22, 2014

Been thinking of getting one of these.

HeatSeeker · Mar 23, 2014

Minuteman said:
Can a person with a Utah permit get a FL permit without additional classroom instruction? :

Yes. and Yes, with proof of military service or proof of live fire. That's what I thought, thank you both!

I believe Hunter's Safety will suffice for FLA.

swinokur · Mar 23, 2014

Yes. hunter safety training is the only training FL exempts from the live fire requirement. Others must include it.

I think Nate said the Texas HS course is on line and is accepted by FL.

EMS Burnout · May 14, 2014

Pennsylvania no longer recognizes the Utah carry permit. Utah notified PA the they no longer meet the PA requirements. However, the are trying to iron out a formal reciprocity agreement.

swinokur · May 14, 2014

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=152090

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=152068

redeemed.man · May 14, 2014

EMS Burnout said:
Pennsylvania no longer recognizes the Utah carry permit. Utah notified PA the they no longer meet the PA requirements. However, the are trying to iron out a formal reciprocity agreement.

The formal reciprocity agreement will NOT allow for CCW by UT non-resident permit holders in all likelihood.

Brooklyn · May 14, 2014

boundlessdyad said:
The formal reciprocity agreement will NOT allow for CCW by UT non-resident permit holders in all likelihood.

Most likey they will discover what we already know-- that UT permits are nor issued to PA residents unless they have a PA permit. The AG's office is clueless on this. They think otherwise, based on the wording of the letter.

The remedy will be by legislative act. Or the courts.

In any case I will be trying to find at least one PA legislator to discuss this with .. maybe the next time I am in York

redeemed.man · May 14, 2014

Brooklyn said:
Most likey they will discover what we already know-- that UT permits are nor issued to PA residents unless they have a PA permit. The AG's office is clueless on this. They think otherwise, based on the wording of the letter.

The remedy will be by legislative act. Or the courts.

In any case I will be trying to find at least one PA legislator to discuss this with .. maybe the next time I am in York

Incorrect. They are not clueless on this. Utah made the home state permit a requirement to avoid states like PA dropping reciprocity. The PA AG's office knew this when UT made the change a good while ago. This nutjob will be out of office before the courts or legislature remedy this. If she gets removed from office before her term ends even better. The next AG can focus on signing new agreements as the legislature has already designated.

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moojersey · May 15, 2014

boundlessdyad said:
Incorrect. They are not clueless on this. Utah made the home state permit a requirement to avoid states like PA dropping reciprocity. The PA AG's office knew this when UT made the change a good while ago. This nutjob will be out of office before the courts or legislature remedy this. If she gets removed from office before her term ends even better. The next AG can focus on signing new agreements as the legislature has already designated.

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This. It's an intentional move on her part. There are 2 or 3 other really good threads going on this subject. Utah went out of it's way to keep reciprocity with states that wanted its own residents to get a home resident permit first.

Brooklyn · May 16, 2014

boundlessdyad said:
Incorrect. They are not clueless on this. Utah made the home state permit a requirement to avoid states like PA dropping reciprocity. The PA AG's office knew this when UT made the change a good while ago. This nutjob will be out of office before the courts or legislature remedy this. If she gets removed from office before her term ends even better. The next AG can focus on signing new agreements as the legislature has already designated.

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The Letter implies otherwise. It was a deliberate attempt to confuse the issue. The claim that utah law is not substantially similar is predicated only on the idea that they will issue to nr for states that do not honor ut. The net effect is to target nj and Md in particular. But that may not reflect the intend of the legilature.

She will not be impeached.Sets a bad precedent. What may happen is that the AG will be striped of authority to make such determinations and the leg will take back that function. They may even smack down Philly

I expect if things get to hot for her she will back off on order to prevent the AG bring striped of this authority... I hope she is yo stupid to do so.

Brooklyn · May 16, 2014

moojersey said:
This. It's an intentional move on her part. There are 2 or 3 other really good threads going on this subject. Utah went out of it's way to keep reciprocity with states that wanted its own residents to get a home resident permit first.

I know. This is about Md and nj. They are pulling a fast one. I do not think the ag has this authority...

redeemed.man · May 16, 2014

Brooklyn said:
The Letter implies otherwise. It was a deliberate attempt to confuse the issue. The claim that utah law is not substantially similar is predicated only on the idea that they will issue to nr for states that do not honor ut. The net effect is to target nj and Md in particular. But that may not reflect the intend of the legilature.

She will not be impeached.Sets a bad precedent. What may happen is that the AG will be striped of authority to make such determinations and the leg will take back that function. They may even smack down Philly

I expect if things get to hot for her she will back off on order to prevent the AG bring striped of this authority... I hope she is yo stupid to do so.

It doesn't matter what the letter implies. Anyone that has been paying attention or been through a Utah class in the past 2 years knows why Utah made the changes it made. Pennsylvania knows why Utah made the changes it made. Pennsylvania in league with New Hampshire and Maine all changed non-resident policies in the last 2 years. Each now requires a home state permit. This is not targeted at MD and NJ alone. These tactics are aimed at traveling lawful gun owners no matter where they come from.

Brooklyn · May 16, 2014

boundlessdyad said:
It doesn't matter what the letter implies. Anyone that has been paying attention or been through a Utah class in the past 2 years knows why Utah made the changes it made. Pennsylvania knows why Utah made the changes it made. Pennsylvania in league with New Hampshire and Maine all changed non-resident policies in the last 2 years. Each now requires a home state permit. This is not targeted at MD and NJ alone. These tactics are aimed at traveling lawful gun owners no matter where they come from.

Have you considered the retail politics.. there is a mini crime wave on the lower end of the 83 corridor... Md is exporting hoods. Likewise I would bet on the nj boarder.

That's said it is a deliberate attempt to misstates the ut law to confuse the public. The ag does in fact have this power, but the claim that the law is not substantially similar is on very thin grounds.

This does open up several consttional issues however...

We can now sue pa for not offering nr permits..

I would prefer that the legislature permenanl strip the AG of all such authority and codify reciprocity itself. Then she can be known as the one that did more damage to gun control than any other Ag.

Could not make the Harrisburg rallies since I was tied up with Md. But if they have an event I will really really try to be there.

redeemed.man · May 16, 2014

Brooklyn said:
Have you considered the retail politics.. there is a mini crime wave on the lower end of the 83 corridor... Md is exporting hoods. Likewise I would bet on the nj boarder.

That's said it is a deliberate attempt to misstates the ut law to confuse the public. The ag does in fact have this power, but the claim that the law is not substantially similar is on very thin grounds.

This does open up several consttional issues however...

We can now sue pa for not offering nr permits..

I would prefer that the legislature permenanl strip the AG of all such authority and codify reciprocity itself. Then she can be known as the one that did more damage to gun control than any other Ag.

Could not make the Harrisburg rallies since I was tied up with Md. But if they have an event I will really really try to be there.

Are you serious? Sue PA? WTF for? You can't get a MD permit and you want to sue another state for not giving you one? Is today April Fools Day? :lol2:

If you are serious I think you need to seriously rethink priorities. No one is happy about the PA AG and her games but we need to focus on fixing MD. PA is leagues better for 2A than we are.

Brooklyn · May 16, 2014

boundlessdyad said:
Are you serious? Sue PA? WTF for? You can't get a MD permit and you want to sue another state for not giving you one? Is today April Fools Day?

If you are serious I think you need to seriously rethink priorities. No one is happy about the PA AG and her games but we need to focus on fixing MD. PA is leagues better for 2A than we are.

Because its a sperate cause of action its likely not covered by Res judicata. This means we can bring another claim to generate another split to try for cert. This may be needed if scotus keeps dunking the issue.

This is not about PA. But if pa starts to go soft how do you think we will fair in national politics...like a Senate confirmation hearing.

I am not saying its a priority but consider this... if the worst happens at the court what is our fallback? In fact Md is just one battle of many, and in fact not my first choice as a home for many reasons.. so forgive me if I play the long game. Md is at best surviving it will never thrive. To late for that.

redeemed.man · May 16, 2014

Brooklyn said:
Because its a sperate cause of action its likely not covered by Res judicata. This means we can bring another claim to generate another split to try for cert. This may be needed if scotus keeps dunking the issue.

This is not about PA. But if pa starts to go soft how do you think we will fair in national politics...like a Senate confirmation hearing.

I am not saying its a priority but consider this... if the worst happens at the court what is our fallback? In fact Md is just one battle of many, and in fact not my first choice as a home for many reasons.. so forgive me if I play the long game. Md is at best surviving it will never thrive. To late for that.

I see a lot of "we need to do this or we need to do that" coming from you in your posts. What are you doing? Have you filed any lawsuits? Have you applied for any carry permits and gotten denied so you would have grounds to pursue a legal remedy? Talk is cheap, internet talk is far cheaper. Walk in to a PA Sheriffs office and apply, let us all know how it goes and what you did about the denial.

I applied for a MD carry permit and would have appealed a denial if necessary including retaining a lawyer and going to court if I had to. Once received I requested a modification of my restrictions. My request was denied so I appealed and went to MSP for an informal review and won. If I would have lost I would have gone to the HPRB and court if need be. If you have never applied you don't have much credibility when it comes to what "we need to do'. The first step must be taken before you can tell others what road to travel. It might also be a good idea to check facts before making statements as if they were facts. You could not have been more wrong about the history of permit recognition (informal reciprocity) between PA and UT.

DaemonAssassin · May 16, 2014

boundlessdyad said:
I see a lot of "we need to do this or we need to do that" coming from you in your posts. What are you doing? Have you filed any lawsuits? Have you applied for any carry permits and gotten denied so you would have grounds to pursue a legal remedy? Talk is cheap, internet talk is far cheaper. Walk in to a PA Sheriffs office and apply, let us all know how it goes and what you did about the denial.

I applied for a MD carry permit and would have appealed a denial if necessary including retaining a lawyer and going to court if I had to. Once received I requested a modification of my restrictions. My request was denied so I appealed and went to MSP for an informal review and won. If I would have lost I would have gone to the HPRB and court if need be. If you have never applied you don't have much credibility when it comes to what "we need to do'. The first step must be taken before you can tell others what road to travel. It might also be a good idea to check facts before making statements as if they were facts. You could not have been more wrong about the history of permit recognition (informal reciprocity) between PA and UT.

I have to agree with you. He is talking the talk, but I doubt he has ever walked the walk. I see him repeating the "we need _______" line in almost every post he makes.

PA and UT are working on getting a reciprocity agreement in place, and that is fine and dandy. They just have to deal with a few issues, and then it is finalized.

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