Zeroed my new Howa 1500 today and tested handloads in it and my AR-15.
20” Howa, 18” AR barrels. I’ve read the Howa 1500 (at least in Grendel) runs slow for the barrel length. I am using CCI small pistol primers, Starline brass and, Hornady 123gr HPBT bullets and CFE 223.
Loaded to 2.255” with a taper crimp
First set are Howa and second set are AR numbers.
29gr 2199fps 8.5SD. 2293 15.3SD
30gr 2299fps 6.4SD 2360 21.9SD
31gr 2364fps 9.8SD 2441 16.2SD
It’d be nice if the Howa was faster, but it is what it is. The 30gr group for the Howa my chrono only captured 2 of the 5 rounds, but the SD/spread is really close. On those rounds and all of them. So the severs he velocity is probably pretty accurate.
AR best group was a little under 2” at 100yds. The Howa best was a little under MOA (maybe around .8MOA, I didn’t haul the target back to use calipers). The AR manages about MOA with Hornady ELD-M and Federal Fusion. About 1.5MOA with Hornady American gunner (which uses the same 123gr HPBT bullets I am loading)
After getting home I realized the 123gr HPBT rounds are a LOT shorter than ELD-M, which I was using the load data for. .025” shorter. Hornady lists 2.245” and 31.2gr max with CFE 223 and 2500fps out of an 18” Alexander arms upper and I loaded a max of 2.255” and 31gr and saw 2441fps with my home built 18” upper (ignore the slower Howa data for now).
So I am think to get roughly reproducible numbers I need to shorten COAL to 2.220” to match the bullet seating depth. Though since 2.255” is not hitting the lands in either rifle, me thinks shortening COAL will not increase accuracy.
Is that probably true? I want the bullet seated to between .002 and .005” off the lands, correct? I have not loaded a bullet long and inserted it in to the rifle to see where it pushes the bullet too for COAL.
My thought is since I’ve got a lot more case capacity with the bullet seated long, I could safely inch up my powder charge some. Lyman claims 31gr, 48,700psi and 2.245” COAL with a 123gr ELD-m. Hornady says 31.2gr and 2.245”, no max pressure listed.
SAMMI says 52,000psi. Lyman claims a 9,800psi gain going from 29gr to 31gr.
So seems like I could play with COAL length of 2.255-2.260” (to keep it within AR mag length) and up powder capacity a bit above what Hornady and Lyman are listing without changing blowing up my guns or putting a bolt handle through my head.
Thinking I’d try loading a few cartridges at 31 and 31.2gr and 2.220” COAL to verify if that’s a lot closer to Hornady’s data for my 18”. But mostly I want to try loading at 2.255 or 2.260 at (depends on what my bullet seating on the lands test tells me) and 31.2, 31.4, 31.6gr. See velocities. See accuracy. Look real close for any pressure signs (2.255” and 31gr and the cases looked just dandy out of the AR and Howa, zero signs of pressure).
Or should I be approaching it .1gr at a time?
Or shooting for lower “over max” charges? Or hell, more?
I am as concerned about case life as anything. But I’d love to get in to the 2400fps range out of the Howa, if it remains accurate.
If I get 5 reloads out of the brass I’d be happy. 6 or more ecstatic. 4 or less, pissed. I’ve got about 150 Hornady and Federal cases (mostly Hornady) and I picked up 250 new Starline cases a couple weeks ago. Likely at some point I’ll pickup another 250 or 500 Starline cases some day. I’ve got around 250-300 commercial loads I can of course reload as well at some point once I’ve emptied the brass (mostly Hornady, a bit of federal, a box of frontier and 3 boxes of PPU. The new PPU, not the recalled stuff).
Thoughts? Questions? Suggestions? Concerns?
PS at some point I need to work up an ELD-M load and PPU load. I’ve got 200 123gr ELD-M and 200 PPU 120gr HPBT bullets. But about 900 123gr Hornady HPBT.
20” Howa, 18” AR barrels. I’ve read the Howa 1500 (at least in Grendel) runs slow for the barrel length. I am using CCI small pistol primers, Starline brass and, Hornady 123gr HPBT bullets and CFE 223.
Loaded to 2.255” with a taper crimp
First set are Howa and second set are AR numbers.
29gr 2199fps 8.5SD. 2293 15.3SD
30gr 2299fps 6.4SD 2360 21.9SD
31gr 2364fps 9.8SD 2441 16.2SD
It’d be nice if the Howa was faster, but it is what it is. The 30gr group for the Howa my chrono only captured 2 of the 5 rounds, but the SD/spread is really close. On those rounds and all of them. So the severs he velocity is probably pretty accurate.
AR best group was a little under 2” at 100yds. The Howa best was a little under MOA (maybe around .8MOA, I didn’t haul the target back to use calipers). The AR manages about MOA with Hornady ELD-M and Federal Fusion. About 1.5MOA with Hornady American gunner (which uses the same 123gr HPBT bullets I am loading)
After getting home I realized the 123gr HPBT rounds are a LOT shorter than ELD-M, which I was using the load data for. .025” shorter. Hornady lists 2.245” and 31.2gr max with CFE 223 and 2500fps out of an 18” Alexander arms upper and I loaded a max of 2.255” and 31gr and saw 2441fps with my home built 18” upper (ignore the slower Howa data for now).
So I am think to get roughly reproducible numbers I need to shorten COAL to 2.220” to match the bullet seating depth. Though since 2.255” is not hitting the lands in either rifle, me thinks shortening COAL will not increase accuracy.
Is that probably true? I want the bullet seated to between .002 and .005” off the lands, correct? I have not loaded a bullet long and inserted it in to the rifle to see where it pushes the bullet too for COAL.
My thought is since I’ve got a lot more case capacity with the bullet seated long, I could safely inch up my powder charge some. Lyman claims 31gr, 48,700psi and 2.245” COAL with a 123gr ELD-m. Hornady says 31.2gr and 2.245”, no max pressure listed.
SAMMI says 52,000psi. Lyman claims a 9,800psi gain going from 29gr to 31gr.
So seems like I could play with COAL length of 2.255-2.260” (to keep it within AR mag length) and up powder capacity a bit above what Hornady and Lyman are listing without changing blowing up my guns or putting a bolt handle through my head.
Thinking I’d try loading a few cartridges at 31 and 31.2gr and 2.220” COAL to verify if that’s a lot closer to Hornady’s data for my 18”. But mostly I want to try loading at 2.255 or 2.260 at (depends on what my bullet seating on the lands test tells me) and 31.2, 31.4, 31.6gr. See velocities. See accuracy. Look real close for any pressure signs (2.255” and 31gr and the cases looked just dandy out of the AR and Howa, zero signs of pressure).
Or should I be approaching it .1gr at a time?
Or shooting for lower “over max” charges? Or hell, more?
I am as concerned about case life as anything. But I’d love to get in to the 2400fps range out of the Howa, if it remains accurate.
If I get 5 reloads out of the brass I’d be happy. 6 or more ecstatic. 4 or less, pissed. I’ve got about 150 Hornady and Federal cases (mostly Hornady) and I picked up 250 new Starline cases a couple weeks ago. Likely at some point I’ll pickup another 250 or 500 Starline cases some day. I’ve got around 250-300 commercial loads I can of course reload as well at some point once I’ve emptied the brass (mostly Hornady, a bit of federal, a box of frontier and 3 boxes of PPU. The new PPU, not the recalled stuff).
Thoughts? Questions? Suggestions? Concerns?
PS at some point I need to work up an ELD-M load and PPU load. I’ve got 200 123gr ELD-M and 200 PPU 120gr HPBT bullets. But about 900 123gr Hornady HPBT.