Removing tax stamp from a trust

jmike1487 · Sep 10, 2020

Hello all,

I have a 300 blackout with a 10.5 barrel. I’m toying with the idea of of taking it off the registry. It’s proved to be a pain in the ass taking it out of state to shoot spur of the moment. I don’t plan on selling the gun but converting it with a pistol brace. Has anyone done this before and is it worth it? I called ATF and asked about it but I got some drone worker bee who didn’t feel like talking on the phone.

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IMBLITZVT · Sep 10, 2020

jmike1487 said:
Hello all,

I have a 300 blackout with a 10.5 barrel. I’m toying with the idea of of taking it off the registry. It’s proved to be a pain in the ass taking it out of state to shoot spur of the moment. I don’t plan on selling the gun but converting it with a pistol brace. Has anyone done this before and is it worth it? I called ATF and asked about it but I got some drone worker bee who didn’t feel like talking on the phone.

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How to nicely say this is not a smart idea...

Can I suggest just buying a new pistol lower? You can swap everything over and you don't lose your $200+ SBR lower.

jmike1487 · Sep 10, 2020

IMBLITZVT said:
How to nicely say this is not a smart idea...

Can I suggest just buying a new pistol lower? You can swap everything over and you don't lose your $200+ SBR lower.

I heard that the ATF refunds you? I guess that’s a rumor. That does make sense.

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mdbassplayer · Sep 10, 2020

First - was that lower built as a pistol FIRST? If not, you can't legally just pop a brace on there and call it a pistol. Once a rifle, always a rifle.

And I don't think the ATF give you your money back if you un-regsiter an NFA item. I think that happens only if you cancel the form before it is approved but I could certainly be wrong on that.

jmike1487 · Sep 10, 2020

mdbassplayer said:
First - was that lower built as a pistol FIRST? If not, you can't legally just pop a brace on there and call it a pistol. Once a rifle, always a rifle.

And I don't think the ATF give you your money back if you un-regsiter an NFA item. I think that happens only if you cancel the form before it is approved but I could certainly be wrong on that.

I’m gonna have to check my paper work when I get home.

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erwos · Sep 10, 2020

mdbassplayer said:
First - was that lower built as a pistol FIRST? If not, you can't legally just pop a brace on there and call it a pistol. Once a rifle, always a rifle.

Doesn't matter, he remanufactured it into a short barreled rifle. The only path forward is a 16"+ barrel. It would probably be easier to just buy a new stripped lower and do a parts transfer.

And I don't think the ATF give you your money back if you un-regsiter an NFA item. I think that happens only if you cancel the form before it is approved but I could certainly be wrong on that.

No, they do not give you your money back after approval. If you cancel before approval, you can get a refund.

jollymon · Sep 10, 2020

You can request in writing that your SBR , make , Model , SN. be removed from the NFA Register , But it must state a reason , There's no refund on your tax stamp . As said earlier just get another lower and do the pistol brace thing and put the NFA lower away , You never know what the future will bring , Like a move to a Free State , So don't waste the Tax Stamp.

jmike1487 · Sep 10, 2020

Appreciate all the input!

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mdbassplayer · Sep 10, 2020

erwos said:
Doesn't matter, he remanufactured it into a short barreled rifle. The only path forward is a 16"+ barrel. It would probably be easier to just buy a new stripped lower and do a parts transfer.

Hey Erwos, my understanding is if its built *first* as a pistol, you can put a stock on it and then later go back to being a pistol. Is that changed by the NFA registration as an SBR? I don't have anything this would apply to, just trying to understand better.

babalou · Sep 10, 2020

pistol first

mdbassplayer said:
Hey Erwos, my understanding is if its built *first* as a pistol, you can put a stock on it and then later go back to being a pistol. Is that changed by the NFA registration as an SBR? I don't have anything this would apply to, just trying to understand better.

people do this until their stamp comes back, then swap to a stock and back and forth. To me it is like moving a suppressor between rifles/pistols. Now if purchased as a complete SBR- like a rifle, it cannot be changed to a pistol.

outrider58 · Sep 10, 2020

Why not just throw the brace on when you have to take it out of state in a hurry. That's what I do.

smdub · Sep 10, 2020

mdbassplayer said:
Hey Erwos, my understanding is if its built *first* as a pistol, you can put a stock on it and then later go back to being a pistol. Is that changed by the NFA registration as an SBR? I don't have anything this would apply to, just trying to understand better.

If it was first built as a pistol, you can return it to a pistol at any time. Nothing changes that ever. You do not need to cancel the stamp or notify the ATF. A SBR is only a SBR when it is configured as such per the ATF. A 16"+ upper on a registered SBR receiver is not a SBR. A SBR receiver configured w/ all pistol parts is not a SBR. You can travel w/ it w/ no Form20 paperwork in either generic pistol or rifle configurations.

outrider58 said:
Why not just throw the brace on when you have to take it out of state in a hurry. That's what I do.

^this.

Dovk0802 · Sep 15, 2020

Assuming you're taking it to a state where SBR's are legal, you could file a Form 5320.20 for 364 days; my understanding is that ATF will approve up to a year. I've only filed for moving and got mine back in about a month so, put a reminder on your calendar accordingly.

Pinecone · Sep 17, 2020

outrider58 said:
Why not just throw the brace on when you have to take it out of state in a hurry. That's what I do.

Or a 16" or longer upper.

Either way, even though the serial number is registered, it is not configured as an SBR, so it is not an SBR.

teratos · Sep 17, 2020

Pinecone said:
Or a 16" or longer upper.

Either way, even though the serial number is registered, it is not configured as an SBR, so it is not an SBR.

This.

outrider58 · Sep 17, 2020

Pinecone said:
Or a 16" or longer upper.

Either way, even though the serial number is registered, it is not configured as an SBR, so it is not an SBR.

Defeats the purpose for taking an SBR ish gun out of state, which is why the OP is considering the removal.

Pinecone · Sep 18, 2020

outrider58 said:
Defeats the purpose for taking an SBR ish gun out of state, which is why the OP is considering the removal.

Maybe, maybe not.

outrider58 · Sep 18, 2020

Pinecone said:
Maybe, maybe not.

Does too

niftyvt · Sep 18, 2020

I just submit a bunch of form 5320.20s every year for wherever I think I might want to take my NFA things. Do I think I might, possibly, even just a slight chance: take a class somewhere = form, visit friend/family to shoot = form, visit random range = form. Kind of annoying but the forms are good for a year if you fill them out that way. And you can scan and email them. I just re-upped all my forms a few weeks ago and I think it took 2 weeks for the ATF to mail me approvals. Then I scan the approvals and throw them on my google drive and make them available off line on my phone so I have them at all times.

Note: I keep them as editable PDFs so I can just change dates, print, sign and off they go. Now that I think about it I might redo them with the date block blank but have it signed so all I have to do is change all the dates and email.

AssMan · Sep 18, 2020

Not encouraging the OP to just ignore the ATF rules, but curious as to the number of arrests/prosecutions for not submitting the 5320? It seems pretty retarded, but then again the entire NFA is, so...

OP, you should keep the lower and the stamp. Build it into something else if you want and buy another lower to build your pistol.

Removing tax stamp from a trust

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