1911 Build

JoeyBimmer · Aug 6, 2020

So I want to begin the build up of parts for my 1911.

I don't know which OEM I should opt for, but cheap is the goal/desire with the build, in .45, and a government size.

I am looking at Stealth Arms or US Patriot Armory.

The raw metal frames, do they need to be coated or can they be run as is?

I don't think I want a bobtail frame, the regular grip should be just fine

Please let me know what you fine expert folks I have scene on here think,

and as always, thank you.

bpm32 · Aug 6, 2020

Are you primarily looking for a fun experience or are you trying to save money? If it's the latter, then Rock Island 1911s are actually pretty good and it would be hard to do much better cost-wise than that by building your own.

ETA--briefly looked at US Patriot Armory and those look like they're stainless and aluminum, so no coatings necessary, but it would look nicer if you could give the parts a nice sand or media blast.

JoeyBimmer · Aug 6, 2020

bpm32 said:
Are you primarily looking for a fun experience or are you trying to save money? If it's the latter, then Rock Island 1911s are actually pretty good and it would be hard to do much better cost-wise than that by building your own.

ETA--briefly looked at US Patriot Armory and those look like they're stainless and aluminum, so no coatings necessary, but it would look nicer if you could give the parts a nice sand or media blast.

Yes, a buddy of mine talked me out of it.

I will bite the bullet, actually get my exempted HQL, and pick one of those up.

Hayes has a reliability upgrade for them that cost 200$ that might make sense to do, or I could run it as is and see how it does.

teratos · Aug 6, 2020

Sarco sells cheap parts kits.

Magnumite · Aug 6, 2020

For the $$$ the best deal is the Springfield Armory Defender (Mil Spec). Very nicely machined, better than many realize. They are well fitted and a great base pistol to build from.

My take is a factory pistol to modify after shooting is a great learning tool. Rationale:
- It works. Typically critical machining and relationships are correct. For this reason alone I advise against one frequently mentioned inexpensive 1911 maker;
- When a modification is performed and it isn’t working correctly, the area to investigate has to be in the mod done;
- you decide what you want to do to enhance the performance, invariably making it your pistol;
- if difficulty is encountered, the stock parts may be put back in, not woth all mods but with some.

JoeyBimmer · Aug 7, 2020

Magnumite said:
For the $$$ the best deal is the Springfield Armory Defender (Mil Spec). Very nicely machined, better than many realize. They are well fitted and a great base pistol to build from.

My take is a factory pistol to modify after shooting is a great learning tool. Rationale:
- It works. Typically critical machining and relationships are correct. For this reason alone I advise against one frequently mentioned inexpensive 1911 maker;
- When a modification is performed and it isn’t working correctly, the area to investigate has to be in the mod done;
- you decide what you want to do to enhance the performance, invariably making it your pistol;
- if difficulty is encountered, the stock parts may be put back in, not woth all mods but with some.

what inexpensive brand do you speak of? The one I mentioned, Rock Island?

Magnumite · Aug 8, 2020

Yes. not maliciously speaking. Some of the internal parameters are off, even in pistols built years apart. I just think for the time, effort and parts purchased a better investment could be made at initial purchase. Throw in the frustration factor and its even less positive to choose a RIA to build on.

If one wants an inexpensive pistol to shoot and leave as is, the RIA’s are an option. Still, for a little more the Springers are two times the pistol.

JoeyBimmer · Aug 8, 2020

Magnumite said:
Yes. not maliciously speaking. Some of the internal parameters are off, even in pistols built years apart. I just think for the time, effort and parts purchased a better investment could be made at initial purchase. Throw in the frustration factor and its even less positive to choose a RIA to build on.

If one wants an inexpensive pistol to shoot and leave as is, the RIA’s are an option. Still, for a little more the Springers are two times the pistol.

They aren't twice the price, so it might more sense to go with them. I own an XD so buying a Spring would be right up there to elevate my 'fan boy' status with them. So you would recommend one of those for a few hundred dollars more over the RIA?

Magnumite · Aug 8, 2020

Typical Rock GI in Maryland is about $450 - $550, with GI sights and standard vertical slide serrations. The SA Mil Spec Defender is $500-$550, improved sights, slanted slide serrations which aesthetically are nicer if you decide to beavertail it. That’s a personal preference but most modern configuration 1911’s have slanted cocking serrations or something more fanciful.

For a personal keeper, I’ll pay more for the Springer.

Rockzilla · Aug 9, 2020

Magnumite said:
For the $$$ the best deal is the Springfield Armory Defender (Mil Spec). Very nicely machined, better than many realize. They are well fitted and a great base pistol to build from.

My take is a factory pistol to modify after shooting is a great learning tool. Rationale:
- It works. Typically critical machining and relationships are correct. For this reason alone I advise against one frequently mentioned inexpensive 1911 maker;
- When a modification is performed and it isn’t working correctly, the area to investigate has to be in the mod done;
- you decide what you want to do to enhance the performance, invariably making it your pistol;
- if difficulty is encountered, the stock parts may be put back in, not woth all mods but with some.

^^ What he said
Basically get a cheap 1911 (Rock or other) per say, then mod as you go.
Test it at various stages, as this has a tendency to make it easier to troubleshoot,
go back to the original "working" status.
But if you are dead set on building, Figure out which way you want to go.
Frame, ramped, nonramped, frame size, metal, barrels, tooling, jigs, etc.
Once you have that set, have a plan, then start. You will be investing time
and money. Fitting parts can be time consuming. But the end results can
sometimes be rewarding or leaving you scratching your head, why doesn't
this fit, why does the slide stick in certain spots, why FTF, why... Anyway
figure out which way you want to go, buy one, buy one and mod it or buy
parts and build, Sarco at one time had a lot of Para Parts, they still do sell
parts though...happy building...

-Rock

bpm32 · Aug 12, 2020

Magnumite said:
For the $$$ the best deal is the Springfield Armory Defender (Mil Spec). Very nicely machined, better than many realize. They are well fitted and a great base pistol to build from.

My take is a factory pistol to modify after shooting is a great learning tool. Rationale:
- It works. Typically critical machining and relationships are correct. For this reason alone I advise against one frequently mentioned inexpensive 1911 maker;
- When a modification is performed and it isn’t working correctly, the area to investigate has to be in the mod done;
- you decide what you want to do to enhance the performance, invariably making it your pistol;
- if difficulty is encountered, the stock parts may be put back in, not woth all mods but with some.

Weirdly enough recent Rock Islands are claimed to be acceptable base guns by California Bullseye smiths. Their roster prohibits frames, so that’s what they do. My eyes just about bugged out of my skull the first time I saw it. Stan Huey (Bob Chow’s protege) told me he actually preferred them to Springfields. You end up with a $4000 Rock Island 1911. Granted, nearly every small part gets tossed, but still.

No matter how bad Marylanders got it, there’s always someone who’s got it worse.

Neutron · Aug 12, 2020

You really learn a lot by building your own. It will be more expensive than buying a low to mid priced 1911 though. Stealth arms 1911 kit is $1000 or more the last time I looked and that didn't include the jig. Teratos mentioned the Sarco kit and that is a reasonable option although I would recommend if using a Stealth Arms frame, to also use their beaver tail and thumb safety for a better and easier fit. No it is not necessary to put a finish on the frame if you don't want to.

Rockzilla · Aug 12, 2020

NeutronBlu said:
You really learn a lot by building your own. It will be more expensive than buying a low to mid priced 1911 though. .

Exactly... Building, yes you learn alot, fitting is time consuming, blending the parts in, not to include the finish, etc. But worth it in some cases, "you get out of it what you put in" Kits or even the parts can be costly, could probably buy 2 low-mid level 1911's and your not figuring in your time, tools, files, jigs if needed. Once you can get by that all is great. With the current times, buy while you can. Cheap is no longer cheap, parts, parts kits, etc.

-Rock

Magnumite · Aug 12, 2020

bpm32 said:
Weirdly enough recent Rock Islands are claimed to be acceptable base guns by California Bullseye smiths. Their roster prohibits frames, so that’s what they do. My eyes just about bugged out of my skull the first time I saw it. Stan Huey (Bob Chow’s protege) told me he actually preferred them to Springfields. You end up with a $4000 Rock Island 1911. Granted, nearly every small part gets tossed, but still.

No matter how bad Marylanders got it, there’s always someone who’s got it worse.

I won’t argue any of those points. Those guys are amoung the best there is to build a pistol. I’d like to know what is more desirable about the Rocks for his work. I personally wouldn't spend that kind of green on a Rock but can’t argue with results. However, their knowledge, expertise, and skill with equipment is not on the same plane as someone just starting out. They can do incredible things with any workable base pistol. I am sure the Huey pistol is a work of art.

One I have which presently just needs to be parked, the internal machining was horrid in a few aspects. A beginner would have been lost fitting a semi drop in barrel, even a ‘drop in’, due to the very poor slide bore machining. Barrel time couldn’t be achieved without correcting that. I did it with hand tools and it took a looonng time. That was with an Ed Brown unit and its chamber end diameter isn’t as large as a Kart. While this is one aspect of one sample, there are repeated similar issues if one reads long enough.

So my suggestion is primarily in perspective of a novice or an individual with experience modifying a few pistols.

JoeyBimmer · Aug 13, 2020

Rockzilla said:
^^ What he said
Basically get a cheap 1911 (Rock or other) per say, then mod as you go.
Test it at various stages, as this has a tendency to make it easier to troubleshoot,
go back to the original "working" status.
But if you are dead set on building, Figure out which way you want to go.
Frame, ramped, nonramped, frame size, metal, barrels, tooling, jigs, etc.
Once you have that set, have a plan, then start. You will be investing time
and money. Fitting parts can be time consuming. But the end results can
sometimes be rewarding or leaving you scratching your head, why doesn't
this fit, why does the slide stick in certain spots, why FTF, why... Anyway
figure out which way you want to go, buy one, buy one and mod it or buy
parts and build, Sarco at one time had a lot of Para Parts, they still do sell
parts though...happy building...

-Rock

My buddy talked me out of it. Said I was being dumb and just get my HQL. Any built 1911 would end up costing at least 900$, and probably wouldnt function as nice as a factory one.

Maybe I will do a polymer lower pistol build first, since that would be far more forgiving

JoeyBimmer · Aug 13, 2020

bpm32 said:
Weirdly enough recent Rock Islands are claimed to be acceptable base guns by California Bullseye smiths. Their roster prohibits frames, so that’s what they do. My eyes just about bugged out of my skull the first time I saw it. Stan Huey (Bob Chow’s protege) told me he actually preferred them to Springfields. You end up with a $4000 Rock Island 1911. Granted, nearly every small part gets tossed, but still.

No matter how bad Marylanders got it, there’s always someone who’s got it worse.

as long as California, New York, and New Jersey exist the way they do, yes big time.

Rockzilla · Aug 13, 2020

JoeyBimmer said:
My buddy talked me out of it. Said I was being dumb and just get my HQL. Any built 1911 would end up costing at least 900$, and probably wouldnt function as nice as a factory one.

Maybe I will do a polymer lower pistol build first, since that would be far more forgiving

Building 1911's "does add up" as far as functioning, that would be up for debate
Has your buddy got any first hand experience in building the "metal" 1911's? You'd
be surprised, some function better, depends on the builder, fitting, etc.
Just gotta ask....

-Rock

teratos · Aug 13, 2020

JoeyBimmer said:
My buddy talked me out of it. Said I was being dumb and just get my HQL. Any built 1911 would end up costing at least 900$, and probably wouldnt function as nice as a factory one.

Maybe I will do a polymer lower pistol build first, since that would be far more forgiving

Your buddy is FOS. I built a 1911. I have around $700 into it. It’s tight, functions flawlessly, and the trigger rivals that of my 1967 Camp Perry National Match. I have about 50 hours into the build. Of course, I also have $1200 in jigs. I’ve got plans for numerous other guns on the 1911/2011 platform. If you want to do an 80% to “f*ck the government”, go Polymer80. I’ve done some. I can do one in 30-45 minutes. If you want to put time and thought into a build, making something you can proud of, do a 1911.

Rockzilla · Aug 13, 2020

teratos said:
Your buddy is FOS. I built a 1911. I have around $700 into it. It’s tight, functions flawlessly, and the trigger rivals that of my 1967 Camp Perry National Match. I have about 50 hours into the build. Of course, I also have $1200 in jigs. I’ve got plans for numerous other guns on the 1911/2011 platform. If you want to do an 80% to “f*ck the government”, go Polymer80. I’ve done some. I can do one in 30-45 minutes. If you want to put time and thought into a build, making something you can proud of, do a 1911.

I was trying to be nice....about the buddy...

True on the Jigs / tools / etc. for one build wouldn't make sense
but who am I to say...
best of all you built it.that's the best part...

-Rock

teratos · Aug 13, 2020

Rockzilla said:
I was trying to be nice....about the buddy...
True on the Jigs / tools / etc. for one build wouldn't make sense
but who am I to say...
best of all you built it.that's the best part...

-Rock

I’ve offered my jigs for use here before. I’m not going to lend them out. members I am familiar with are welcome to come to my home and do slide cuts, fit the slide, true the sear/hammer contacts, fit the thumb safety and stake the plunger tube. The rest of the fitting is done with stones that will run you $30 or so. I was in my happy place working on my 1911. I just need to Cerakote it, and I’ll be done (yeah, I bought all the sh!t for that, too).

Hey, this is my hobby and I love it. I did torture Clandestine just a bit.....

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