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Old December 17th, 2019, 09:29 AM   #241
Biggfoot44
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One term is being used in multiple contexts , if not ambiguous , " Member " .

Those indoor shooting joints are for profit businesses . The so called "membership" is just a prepaid package of ( their services) . The customer has no stake , no input, no ownership intrest .

A true Club is a not for profit Mutual Association , working in common for stated shared goals and purposes .
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Old December 17th, 2019, 09:46 AM   #242
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If the guest costs $10, do they get to use their own shooting position?
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Old December 17th, 2019, 09:48 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by IMBLITZVT View Post
I fixed that problem... I ran and I was elected. I was a 25 year old in MRC who had only been a member for a year. I got a bunch of old guys to vote for me... it certainly can be done.

Bryant is a guy always willing to go over and discuss the results. He has helped me several times and we have disagreed several times. That said he is always willing to help and is always trying to make the AGC better. You might not always agree with him on the way to do it but I assure you he will hear you out! He specifically called me out in the meeting for being a knuckle head who disagreed with him on this issue... which I proudly agreed I was! I assure you if his email blows up with complaints, he will think long and hard about it and not because he is worried about his position but because he does care a lot about the AGC. Let me assure you that while we disagree on this issue and others, Bryant has helped bring in the MG club. He helped bring in the new Range Rules in 06 when the old rules were horrible. He has done a lot of positive things along with some others like the Storage Shed that we parted ways on. He has always given me an ear and heard my complaints and I am not even in his club.

P.S. most clubs have 2 trustees...
As I recall, you were booted from the trustee position by MRC. You should also recall that I was the only one who wanted the issue brought out before the membership. Bryant gets credit for a lot and he deserves some of it but, he can also be arrogant and manipulative at times. Perhaps that is due to all the crap he has dealt with over the years. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
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Old December 17th, 2019, 10:14 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by MEGARMS View Post
It is my contention that 90% of range badge holders fall into this category. Most of us only use the range (Pistol, Barnes, and 200 yd range) a handful of times each year. We are the ones that the AGC can not afford to lose. We are as important to the AGC as the guy who never uses his gym membership is to the Gym. We pay full price and consume less than our fair share. Lose too many of these guys and the AGC is in deep shit.
I didn't get a badge in 2019 because I only used the range about 5 times in 2018. I moved in early 2018. I went from being 10 minutes from the range to an hour away.

The only times I was at AGC in 2019 was for club events and meetings.
I was actually going to get a 2020 badge. Now maybe not.

I moved to Harford County so I have places to shoot on private property close to my house, with no guest fees.

So why spend $200 per year, which would be $40 a trip assuming I go 5 times again, then pay guest fees if I want to bring a friend?
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Old December 17th, 2019, 10:50 AM   #245
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... While I was not at the trustees meeting to witness the vote, the result was reported to us afterwards that Garrison and Arlington where the only clubs to vote against the guest fee. Needless to say, I'm disappointed. ...
I guess I should note with Garrison that they sit at the front of the room, so there is some chance I did not hear them in the back. However there was only one clear "No" vote said loud enough for me to hear and it was not Garrison.

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When I joined Monumental many years ago NRA membership was a requirement for membership....Say what you want about the NRA, and I certainly have my issues with current leadership,...
Yes, Monumental may require NRA membership but AGC does not. I agree on the NRA comments... they are not doing so hot but they are still the ones that strike fear in the enemy.

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.... become so obvious how easy this could have been to find common ground.....
There was a time for common ground to be found before the vote... you guys are late to the game and the game is over... You can start a new one but... you guys needed to be better informed.

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If the guest costs $10, do they get to use their own shooting position?
No... I think that would make it worth the $10 if you did.

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Originally Posted by dist1646 View Post
As I recall, you were booted from the trustee position by MRC. You should also recall that I was the only one who wanted the issue brought out before the membership. Bryant gets credit for a lot and he deserves some of it but, he can also be arrogant and manipulative at times. Perhaps that is due to all the crap he has dealt with over the years. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
Yes I was Booted/Stabbed in the back by MRC, they sent me the letter in the mail. I was then voted back into office and back out of office at the next meeting because the poor membership saw what BS it was but also did not then want to screw over the replacement Trustee... What was one of my big offenses... the leadership did not like that I informed the membership about everything and took to long in the meetings. I like the current MRC trustee, who played no part in my leaving. That said he did not vote no to this motion. Either way, I don't see why that matters in the current discussion. That was years after I was elected and was years ago and is a story on its own. I will be happy to tell it in private and you can see for yourself who's side was right. I never lost an election... I just decided to step away when it was clear the leadership could not get me voted out but had decided they did not like me. While I am pretty sure I would have been re-elected, it was better for MRC to let the position go to the next guy and I was moving towards MDTCA at that point anyway, so I did not run again.
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Old December 17th, 2019, 11:24 AM   #246
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I don’t like the new policy either but holy crap some of you guys need some cheese with that whine. I feel like I’m watching an episode of cops and the guy getting arrested says, “I pay your salary”.


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Old December 17th, 2019, 11:55 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by Biggfoot44 View Post
One term is being used in multiple contexts , if not ambiguous , " Member " .

Those indoor shooting joints are for profit businesses . The so called "membership" is just a prepaid package of ( their services) . The customer has no stake , no input, no ownership intrest .

A true Club is a not for profit Mutual Association , working in common for stated shared goals and purposes .
This
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Old December 17th, 2019, 02:52 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by IMBLITZVT View Post
Yes I was Booted/Stabbed in the back by MRC, they sent me the letter in the mail. I was then voted back into office and back out of office at the next meeting because the poor membership saw what BS it was but also did not then want to screw over the replacement Trustee... What was one of my big offenses... the leadership did not like that I informed the membership about everything and took to long in the meetings. I like the current MRC trustee, who played no part in my leaving. That said he did not vote no to this motion. Either way, I don't see why that matters in the current discussion. That was years after I was elected and was years ago and is a story on its own. I will be happy to tell it in private and you can see for yourself who's side was right. I never lost an election... I just decided to step away when it was clear the leadership could not get me voted out but had decided they did not like me. While I am pretty sure I would have been re-elected, it was better for MRC to let the position go to the next guy and I was moving towards MDTCA at that point anyway, so I did not run again.
You brought the point up, that makes it relevant. Your memory is different from mine. The executive board removed you. I stated that both sides should be heard by the membership before the members voted to uphold their action. Everyone else was silent and the vote went in favor of the decision. I don't know how you interpret that as voluntarily stepping away, unless you are referring to membership in the club. FYI, it was decided that had you tried to renew membership, it would not be accepted. Representing your own interests by using the position of trustee was the primary reason I was given.
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Old December 17th, 2019, 04:30 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by IMBLITZVT View Post
I guess I should note with Garrison that they sit at the front of the room, so there is some chance I did not hear them in the back. However there was only one clear "No" vote said loud enough for me to hear and it was not Garrison.
I'll be seeing them shortly at the range. I will post my findings (and any provided rebuttal) when I get home.


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Old December 17th, 2019, 04:38 PM   #250
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You brought the point up, that makes it relevant. Your memory is different from mine. The executive board removed you. I stated that both sides should be heard by the membership before the members voted to uphold their action. Everyone else was silent and the vote went in favor of the decision. I don't know how you interpret that as voluntarily stepping away, unless you are referring to membership in the club. FYI, it was decided that had you tried to renew membership, it would not be accepted. Representing your own interests by using the position of trustee was the primary reason I was given.
Me saying that one can get themselves voted in as Trustee using myself as an example hardly lends itself to this discussion. I was removed because when my little girl was in the hospital and I missed two meetings, I only notified the other Trustee to make sure MRC was covered. I had not realized that when the revision was made to MRC bylaws that us trustees were no longer considered MRC officers anymore and the rule was that when a trustee missed a meeting me must notify the MRC officers. I did exactly what the other Trustee was doing. I was doing what all MRC trustees had been doing for years. I failed to note one otherwise insignificant point of a bylaws change that otherwise had little to do with the Trustees.

They took the vote on my removal the morning of the MRC picnic and I was at the picnic. They did not say one word to me. Then sent me a letter in the mail.

At next meeting, nothing was said until I bought it up a the end of the meeting and made my case. I made a motion and was voted back in. Someone else brought up what was to be done about the other Trustee who had taken my place who was not there and was a good guy. The motion was made to leave him there until the election and that was past... so I was back out. It was clear to me the membership did not know what to make of it.

I don't know why this is coming up now but I am surely not afraid to talk about it. Frankly I feel like it makes MRC look bad and even if the leadership of the time stabbed me in the back, MRC has a lot of good people and its generally under new leadership now. So I don't bring it up. I get along with their current Trustee and I like him. I did not know they would have tried to refuse my membership. Its amazing... I was in a voted in position. Instead of using some technicality to remove me while my little Girl was in the hospital and then try and refuse my membership.... you think they could have just ran someone against me and actually won an election. All they need to do was convince the membership... oh... but there is the problem. The membership thought I was doing a good job, I kept them informed and told them exactly how I voted and what I thought on issues. The last election I won more votes for Trustee than the other 2 people running.

The sad part is... instead of coming to me and talking like adults... they did that crap. The real reason they moved against me is that they thought I was on the then current AGC Presidents side when I was not. Had they come to me and actually talked about issues they would have found me on the same side. Instead the guy that replaced me voted against what they wanted anyway! I did get a laugh at that. I do have to say it was one of the worst most cowardly things I have seen done and I told the all the MRC officers that to their face. They should all be ashamed for what they did. I would not have ever done what they did no matter how much I might dislike someone else in the club. If they really did not like me, act like adults and vote me out of office. We have a vote every year. I did not renew my membership or run again... that was stepping away to me. I seriously doubt the membership would have refuse my membership and I would bet they would have re-elected me but we will never know. I had several MRC members come to me and apologize for what happened, not that it was their fault.

I have been with the AGC since 2004 with a well established reputation for being honest and straightforward. I did not take sides in some of the political battles for leadership, I was on the AGCs side. If you have a good idea, I support it even if you might not be my favorite person. If you have a bad idea as my friend, sorry I tell you its a bad idea. Just ask the current AGC President. I have given some of his ideas a lot of support and some I have told him I don't like and work against it as I don't think its good for the AGC. This case in point. I emailed the President to make sure he saw what was being posted and then went on to post that I did not support this move which he backed...

If you have to be dishonest, stab people in the back and act in bad faith in your hobby.... what is the point? You ask around, my reputation is right where I want it to be and I dare you to find someone who says I stabbed them in the back! If this was not enough, you are welcome to email me about it as I doubt these guys care about an issue that has been over for what, almost a decade and has pretty much nothing to do with the current topic ... phiteshe@vt.edu
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