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Old December 20th, 2019, 08:39 AM   #291
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Originally Posted by ToolAA View Post

Imagine having to decide on forking out $200 for something you use 5-10 times a year or having extra Christmas money when times ate tight. The badge is a Luxury item and it would be on most peopleís hit list when times are tough.
What he said. I'm there right now.
And like I said a few posts back I live an hour away and have places shoot close to home.
I don't have a 100 or 200 yard range I can shoot at, but then I can shoot with whoever I want whenever I want and don't have any fees
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Old December 20th, 2019, 08:41 AM   #292
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Motion to immediately suspend guest fee collection until MM/DD/YYYY in order to provide time for further discussion. Pick a date.


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Old December 20th, 2019, 08:42 AM   #293
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Originally Posted by danb View Post
You must not have looked at the guest statistics.
There were also clubs signing people in for public events that didn't need to.
I don't know the numbers but assuming a dozen people signed in for each public event would that not skew the numbers considerably upward?
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Old December 20th, 2019, 08:43 AM   #294
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Originally Posted by ToolAA View Post
A lot of this price increases can be attributed to another fact. The economy is fairly strong so price increases are met with less resistance in general. Any reproductions to this specific policy change along with the gradual membership increase over the past 5 yrs will become evident as soon as we face the next recession.

Imagine having to decide on forking out $200 for something you use 5-10 times a year or having extra Christmas money when times ate tight. The badge is a Luxury item and it would be on most peopleís hit list when times are tough.

Im some ways I would prefer to have a lower annual membership fee and perhaps a higher guest fee but thatís just me and probably reflects my personal usage patterns.
In the past I have been a huge apologist for badge fee increases. DC/Baltimore metro area is one of the most expensive in the country and real estate and labor costs are only going up.

While badge fee increases are inevitable, increases done in an underhanded way, at the last minute after people have renewed, on a smoke fill phone call, that piss off members, are not inevitable. Moreover the stated reasons for the badge fee increases (safety and abuse of the policy) are easily handled without badge fee increases. So, to most they smell like lies. Combine the method with the lies, you have Annapolis gun-grabber methods of fee increases.
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Old December 20th, 2019, 08:47 AM   #295
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Originally Posted by plinkerton View Post
There were also clubs signing people in for public events that didn't need to.
I don't know the numbers but assuming a dozen people signed in for each public event would that not skew the numbers considerably upward?
If one looked at the stats, there are only 3 different people for whom it would be worth it to get a badge, even at $10 per visit. That is assuming those 3 people are not spouses or kids under 18., and were not attending events.
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Old December 20th, 2019, 09:51 AM   #296
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My indoor gun range in Atlanta was $425 per year with one free guest per visit. Compared to that, AGC is steal.

https://www.quickshotshootingrange.c...ead-membership


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Old December 20th, 2019, 10:08 AM   #297
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How many other people renewed badges for 2020, without a single word having been mentioned, either prior to or during renewal, that the guest policy has changed? ....
The AGC changes policies ALL THE TIME without making sure that you are paying attention. This was given to the club Trustees in the proper way! Your Trustee did not do their job. This will be a surprise to NO ONE in my club. You need to be mad at your club for not keeping you informed, not the AGC!

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....
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but most of us believe the new policy effects all badge holders equally- the ~2% of abusers are being treated the same as the ~98% of us who bring <5 guests per year.
It was never my understanding that this was only about the abusers. The AGC was very clear its also about increasing revenue.

There are many things going on in the AGC right now. They are looking at maybe buying more property, expanding the range like with more than just the Action shooting bays. This is not a secret if you are around to hear. The AGC is looking to raise money, no doubt. You have a good/better way... let the AGC know. I have already talked to the President myself about a few ways I would consider.

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Originally Posted by rseymorejr View Post
The claim that guests are costing the AGC money is complete horseshit. The fixed costs are the same whether there are 2 people on the line or 52. The insurance is the same, the utilities are the same, the maintenance is the same, the personnel costs are the same. The guests were just looked at as untapped sources of revenue. ....I'd be willing to bet another range badge increase is on the horizon too.....
For sure, there is general maintenance and wear and tear. You can leave a house for 50 years without living in it and it will need a certain about of repairs. You can have a family in it and it will increase the amount of wear and tear. If you think 4K visits to the range does not wear stuff out quicker... then I don't know what to tell you but you are wrong. There is certainly a cost. The AGC absolutely increases the number of staff on duty according to expected usage. That includes guests. Sorry man, you are just wrong. There is a cost to having guests on the range. Now if its enough to justify them paying a fee is a different story, but there is for sure a cost.

The complaint about the Range badge going up after this was brought up... Its impossible to completely tell... however I observed an assumption from the leadership that they would not be looking to increase the badge price anymore for a good while. This is why they are looking to generate revenue other ways. This is why you saw the 15 range badge and the guest fee... because they know the badge price is about as high as they want it to go.

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Originally Posted by sundazes View Post
it's not really about the fee. It's about the underhanded way it was implemented. The AGC can blame the club's for not communicating to the members all they want, but the AGC could have at least sent out emails to it's 3k+ members.
I remember when the AGC raised the badge fee from $50 TO $150 to buy the properties. People bitched, but at least it was well communicated to the membership. You KNEW it was coming unless you lived under a rock. Same thing when the did the incremental increases to $200. You did not just show up to a sign on the door after is was implemented.
I guess the membership needs to pass the bill to read the bill.
It was not underhanded just because you happened to be under a rock at the time... My club was fully informed. I read the bill long before it was voted on. It is not the AGC's job to make sure the club trustees are doing their job. Your anger is miss-placed. The Trustees have been very resistant to the AGC directly contacting its members. You don't like that, have you trustee make a motion to have the AGC create a monthly news letter and give it permission to contact all members on a regular basis. I personally think it would be a good idea. However lots of gun people don't want to be on any list...

You may not like the way the AGC is set up... however thats the way its been for a long time. It can change but you have to get a trustee willing to vote for that change.
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Old December 20th, 2019, 10:12 AM   #298
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I know Stemmers' VOTED YES for this fee.

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Originally Posted by rbird7282 View Post
Which is why I want to know who it is, because I'll either join them or go to MSI (already a member there) if I get a range badge at all. My current club is Baltimore Rifle and I will not be renewing there. They can SUCK IT.


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Old December 20th, 2019, 10:29 AM   #299
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Originally Posted by IMBLITZVT View Post
The AGC changes policies ALL THE TIME without making sure that you are paying attention. This was given to the club Trustees in the proper way! Your Trustee did not do their job. This will be a surprise to NO ONE in my club. You need to be mad at your club for not keeping you informed, not the AGC!



It was never my understanding that this was only about the abusers. The AGC was very clear its also about increasing revenue.

There are many things going on in the AGC right now. They are looking at maybe buying more property, expanding the range like with more than just the Action shooting bays. This is not a secret if you are around to hear. The AGC is looking to raise money, no doubt. You have a good/better way... let the AGC know. I have already talked to the President myself about a few ways I would consider.



For sure, there is general maintenance and wear and tear. You can leave a house for 50 years without living in it and it will need a certain about of repairs. You can have a family in it and it will increase the amount of wear and tear. If you think 4K visits to the range does not wear stuff out quicker... then I don't know what to tell you but you are wrong. There is certainly a cost. The AGC absolutely increases the number of staff on duty according to expected usage. That includes guests. Sorry man, you are just wrong. There is a cost to having guests on the range. Now if its enough to justify them paying a fee is a different story, but there is for sure a cost.

The complaint about the Range badge going up after this was brought up... Its impossible to completely tell... however I observed an assumption from the leadership that they would not be looking to increase the badge price anymore for a good while. This is why they are looking to generate revenue other ways. This is why you saw the 15 range badge and the guest fee... because they know the badge price is about as high as they want it to go.



It was not underhanded just because you happened to be under a rock at the time... My club was fully informed. I read the bill long before it was voted on. It is not the AGC's job to make sure the club trustees are doing their job. Your anger is miss-placed. The Trustees have been very resistant to the AGC directly contacting its members. You don't like that, have you trustee make a motion to have the AGC create a monthly news letter and give it permission to contact all members on a regular basis. I personally think it would be a good idea. However lots of gun people don't want to be on any list...



You may not like the way the AGC is set up... however thats the way its been for a long time. It can change but you have to get a trustee willing to vote for that change.
You Sir have a very misguided sense of who needs to be paying attention! You seem to think that MEMBERSHIP works for the AGC???

They change money related expectations all the time? Regarding fees that members are going to be expected to pay? That's what they do? They make a change and f%/# it, that's good enough???

They accept range badge renewals the first week of November for 2020, without telling purchasers in advance of their changes? Do they? Do they really? Buy what it is that you think you're getting? Then take whatever you get?

Maybe you need to read this thread and pay attention to what is being said, instead of thinking about your next post in defense of this brand of bullshit.

They shit the bed here. PERIOD!
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Old December 20th, 2019, 10:29 AM   #300
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I have to lol at buying more property. Land in Marriottsville is going for about $35k/acre and twice that in nearby Sykesville. The odds of AGC outbidding a developer in the area are about the same as Frosh coming out pro-gun all these years. They have to better use what they already have, starting with not pissing off existing members.
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