Member Response to NRA Lawsuit

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  • hillbilly grandpa

    Active Member
    Jan 26, 2013
    962
    Arnold
    What follows are some early thoughts on our current challenge/opportunity. They are not intended to be a finished piece. They are intended to be the beginning of a conversation about how we can seize the moment and go on the offensive.

    In college I had a professor who could begin his lecture explaining how to estimate the amount of board feet in a given tree and end up explaining how to calculate the acreage in a township. Hopefully we can keep this thread on topic. The opportunity at hand is important in its own right. Let’s create some collective wisdom.

    The Setup: Letitia James, the New York Attorney General, has filed suit seeking to dissolve the National Rifle Association. She alleges that top officers in the organization have engaged in self-dealing and fraudulent activity in contravention to the organization’s stated purpose. She proposes to remedy these alleged violations by small group of individuals, who are accused of violating their trust with, and “stealing” from the organization’s members, by dissolving the organization in its entirety, and thereby disenfranchising the membership in toto.

    Possible Responses: The NRA is a member organization. We’re approximately 5,000,000 million members strong. Given that the AG’s threatened action will affect us directly, I believe we have legal standing.

    PR #1: The membership at large, not just the selective list who have bought the privilege of voting in NRA elections, should consider filing suit against the AG for recovery of damages that will be incurred by the members. If only 20% of our membership would ante up $10.00 that would forest a war chest for this suit and other actions outlined below. (1,000,000 X $10.00 = $10,000,000)

    Damages might include, but not be limited to:
    • Loss of subscriptions to valuable and educational publications
    • Loss of instructor credentials
    • Loss of income by instructors because of loss of credentials
    • Loss of infrastructure for promotion of Eddie Eagle, that has provided training to over 32,000,000 young people
    • Loss of infrastructure and resources underpinning the Safe Schools Assessment Program
    • Loss of support staff essential to carrying out firearm safety and skills training at the local level.
    • Loss of infrastructure and finances to support local facilities and organizations in promoting firearm safety and training.
    • Your additional claim here.

    By identifying and monetizing all the itemized losses suffered in each state, and grossing up for “pain and suffering” along with the cost of prosecution, we would arrive at the amount we would be suing for. It would be huuuge.

    PR#2: It is a generally recognized business maxim that an organization is perfectly designed to produce the outcomes it is producing. Those outcomes attest to the efficacy of the design. Those outcomes do not indicate that the design isn’t working; they’re proof that it is. Don’t like the outcomes? Change the design.

    When we look at the current operation of NRA national, and lament its multiple dysfunctions, we often tend to blame them on individuals. But the reason those individuals are able to behave as they do is because they have become masters at operating within the current design of the organization. The old saying is “you can’t beat a man on his own pool table.” That might be about to change.

    The pending suit may accomplish from the outside what many, working through a stacked-deck organizational design, have been unable to accomplish from within. It may result in the removal of several top operatives in the organization. If so, that will be because the outside forces will create a different pool table with a different set of rules. New game, new design, different outcome.

    Our suit would not create a different pool table. But it would add some more balls (no pun intended) to the table. Carom shots add to the complexity.

    PR#3: This suit initiative could/should serve as the vehicle for beginning a 50-state grassroots NRA mobilization effort. We could create a new bottom-up infrastructure aimed at being inclusive instead of exclusive. A “constitutional convention” of these state caucuses could begin formulating guidelines and “rules” for the Renewed NRA, designed to achieve the outcomes we intend and desire. New design, different anticipated outcomes.

    This reformulation might include new clarity about our mission and priorities, budgeting created to support the mission and priorities, and staffing based on the mission. Working committees and task forces could involve multiple members with varying expertise to undertake various assignments. They would report to a much smaller board with downline, as opposed to upline, accountability. The Renewed NRA could/should be designed to carry out its business/mercantile functions like a business, not a private piggy bank. By design the mercantile operations should support the fundamental visions of training and 2nd Amendment advocacy.

    Over time it has become SOP to complain about NRA national, and frequently to lament about the unsavory state of affairs. And for good reason. They’ve been pretty bad, and we’re looking at somebody else’s pool table. The danger is that we lapse into burnishing our charter membership credentials in the “Oh, Ain’t It Awful” club and little else. To do so at this moment would be unfortunate.

    Letitia James has handed us a tremendous opportunity to play on a different pool table, and to become “the organization within the organization.” As the soul of the organization we can transform the body. A caterpillar transforms into a chrysalis. If you break it open too soon there’s nothing inside but some black goo. But when the time is right, or as it says in the Bible, “in the fullness of time,” what emerges is a butterfly. The timing is right. We can be that butterfly.

    “The future starts today, not tomorrow.”—Pope John Paul II.
     

    sgt23preston

    USMC LLA. NRA Life Member
    May 19, 2011
    3,994
    Perry Hall
    Let me start by saying that I am a Marine, a shooter & a Life Member of the NRA...

    But let the truth be told...

    The NRA is the only real "National" Advocate that shooters have...

    Due to the overwhelming majority of Democratic Voters, Merry-Land sends just 1 Republican Politican to DC...

    In 2016, 66.1% of Merry Land Voters voted AGAINST President Trump...

    More Merry-Landers will probably vote against Trump in 2020...

    Almost everything our Republican Governor VETOS, gets overridden by the Democratic Legislature...

    The Democratice Legislature runs the State...

    The Governor is just a Figure Head in reality...

    Our Gun Rights have been steadily eroded & trampled forever...

    As a result of all the above, NRA has NO EFFECT HERE & is totally useless in Merry-Land...

    We give the NRA a lot of money & we get ZERO in return...

    Does anyone have another point of view to add..?
     

    BeoBill

    Crank in the Third Row
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 3, 2013
    27,060
    南馬里蘭州鮑伊
    I don't care how much support we get from the NRA here; we don't get much benefit from the Red Cross either but we still support it. The important thing is that it's a national organization that draws fire away from other, less well publicized 2A organizations, and can still get Congresscreatures' attention.

    Personally I think a class action suit is a great idea. There is also a similar anti-NRA suit in DC, and I expect "Me Too" Flush to climb on the bandwagon as soon as he can. Aside from lawyers we need some good PR types who can grow legs under the idea. Like the Virginia 2A Rally in January (which we did not directly benefit one bit from either).

    Any takers?
     

    Traveler

    Lighten up Francis
    Jan 18, 2013
    8,227
    AA County
    Maryland, like my home state of New York, is lost. A cesspool of socialist anti American progressive liberal thinking. My vote is wasted in Maryland, but I still go and cast it.
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,815
    Let me start by saying that I am a Marine, a shooter & a Life Member of the NRA...

    But let the truth be told...

    The NRA is the only real "National" Advocate that shooters have...

    Due to the overwhelming majority of Democratic Voters, Merry-Land sends just 1 Republican Politican to DC...

    In 2016, 66.1% of Merry Land Voters voted AGAINST President Trump...

    More Merry-Landers will probably vote against Trump in 2020...

    Almost everything our Republican Governor VETOS, gets overridden by the Democratic Legislature...

    The Democratice Legislature runs the State...

    The Governor is just a Figure Head in reality...

    Our Gun Rights have been steadily eroded & trampled forever...

    As a result of all the above, NRA has NO EFFECT HERE & is totally useless in Merry-Land...

    We give the NRA a lot of money & we get ZERO in return...

    Does anyone have another point of view to add..?

    Yeah. I do. Merryland doesn't run the national scene. You allow the NRA to go under to ANYONE, you are abetting the incrimental distruction of the second ammendment.
    If your car breaks down, do you trash it? No. You either fix it yourself, or you find someone to fix it for your.
    There are still a lot of good people fighting for us in the NRA. You gonna fire them too on the grounds they have a lousy boss?
    The 2A is bigger than Merryland.
     

    Sundazes

    My brain hurts
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 13, 2006
    21,296
    Arkham
    OP brings up some excellent points that me, as a lay person, (otherwise known as a dumbass) did not think of. I would gladly pony up a few bucks for a countersuit. I was talking to a guy today about this. His comment was it will never hold water. I told him it will hold millions in legal fees and that is the goal.

    Really interested in what our legal beagles say.
     

    hillbilly grandpa

    Active Member
    Jan 26, 2013
    962
    Arnold
    OP brings up some excellent points that me, as a lay person, (otherwise known as a dumbass) did not think of. I would gladly pony up a few bucks for a countersuit. I was talking to a guy today about this. His comment was it will never hold water. I told him it will hold millions in legal fees and that is the goal.

    Really interested in what our legal beagles say.

    I believe that as a damaged party we would have standing to sue. The suit would stand on its own merits. But publicly staged and presented, its other merit would be to generate publicity and interest for the broader organizing effort. Building the base essential to having a seat--or seats--at the table during the restructuring process as the suits progress and/or are settled is the Holy Grail. These initiatives move forward synergistically.
     

    rambling_one

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 19, 2007
    6,725
    Bowie, MD
    As a soon to be Octogenarian, I am now more a follower than a leader. Why all the negativity to his proposal? The OP is spot on. There are millions of gun owners which means we have a considerable amount of power. What will it take to get them off their ass?
     

    Bob A

    όυ φροντισ
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    30,690
    Who you gonna sue? Is there actual access to funds for damages? All these characters are protected by qualified immunity; they don't care if the government (i.e. taxpayers) have to cough up the funds for a lawsuit payout, if they lose. Hell, everyone involved with the suit will be dead and buried before it comes to judgement.

    At least, those were my first thoughts on the subject.
     

    outobie

    Active Member
    Mar 7, 2012
    142
    Annapolis
    I’m not informed Or knowledgeable about any internal issues with the NRA.
    All I see is yet another attack on my rights.
    I’m happy to make a modest contribution for the legal defense. Put something together and I’ll support.
     

    ToBeFree

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 5, 2011
    2,614
    Highland Cnty-Va
    That's a lot of thinking before my first cup of coffee!
    Not being inclined for litigation, I missed that band wagon, as so many of our fellow citizens are I would contribute towards the effort. Any members of the bar's comments, another perspective, would be highly regarded.
     

    Rus

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 27, 2017
    226
    No. Carroll County
    OP, I like the way you think!

    Heck, I’d pony up a dang C-note, to get the train you describe rollin’!

    Yep, me too !
    OP, I believe you're spot on...we have nearly no chance if we allow the destruction of a good cause because it has some corrupt actors.
    If this could be published by the few 2A-supporting news outlets, this may get some traction. Every state will have some to lend support. If Ollie North or some other well-known person would lead, it is fixable.
     

    GolfR

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 20, 2016
    1,324
    Columbia MD
    Let’s all be honest about the fact that some of the lawsuits statements have merit. The NRA leadership has totally screwed the pooch and needs to be held accountable for their terrible and selfish actions. I’m in no way saying that the organization itself should be penalized or disbanded but I am disappointed that my dues to the organization haven’t been spent diligently on the things that I hold dear like fighting for our rights. This is no different than my disappointment that the equivalent to my lifetime contribution to the tax system is spent every night arresting criminals and then having them back on the street the next morning.

    Is there an scenario here where the NRA could use this as a means to recover some of the millions spent on its leadership, oust the wrong doers, and emerge as a much better organization? That’s my hope because anyone who believes that words in the constitution are laws and that we should actually follow them needs the NRA.
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,087
    Let me start by saying that I am a Marine, a shooter & a Life Member of the NRA...

    But let the truth be told...

    The NRA is the only real "National" Advocate that shooters have...

    Due to the overwhelming majority of Democratic Voters, Merry-Land sends just 1 Republican Politican to DC...

    In 2016, 66.1% of Merry Land Voters voted AGAINST President Trump...

    More Merry-Landers will probably vote against Trump in 2020...

    Almost everything our Republican Governor VETOS, gets overridden by the Democratic Legislature...

    The Democratice Legislature runs the State...

    The Governor is just a Figure Head in reality...

    Our Gun Rights have been steadily eroded & trampled forever...

    As a result of all the above, NRA has NO EFFECT HERE & is totally useless in Merry-Land...

    We give the NRA a lot of money & we get ZERO in return...

    Does anyone have another point of view to add..?

    Having worked with the NRA-ILA rep for Maryland for 5 years in Annapolis, they do quite a bit here in Maryland. Probably more so than anyone that complains about the organizations action in Maryland. Out of a 90 day session she routinely spent 75+ of those days in Annapolis or working on issues in the legislature. Once the legislative session was over, she continued to work on issues and meet with legislators on issues in Maryland. Just because they don't tout what they do every day, doesn't mean they aren't doing anything.

    NOW - back to the thread and conversation, what do you have to add to it?

    For me, it is an opportunity, but people need to get on board and be active for it to work instead of be apathetic and just sit a keyboard and bitch.
     

    TexDefender

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 28, 2017
    1,572
    We need the NRA. I will help defend it. It is a membership organization and it should be left to the membership to fix it. Personally I think this is a political stunt by the AG.

    Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk
     

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