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  • CharlieFoxtrot

    ,
    Industry Partner
    Sep 30, 2007
    2,527
    Foothills of Appalachia
    I built a Traditions flintlock longrifle kit this winter as a quarantine project. I have zero flintlock experience and am itching to shoot it. I have a can of 3F pyrodex powder which I am going to use for the main charge. I’ve been looking all over for some 4F for the pan with no luck so far. At this point I am just ready to buy the first 4F I come across. My question is does it matter if it’s actual 4F black powder or should I stick with 4F Pyrodex?

    As an aside I went into a gun store today looking for some and was told at length that you can only shoot actual black powder in a flintlock and that it’s not safe to use Pyrodex. My Traditions manual differs.
     

    jr355

    Active Member
    Apr 21, 2014
    301
    Fullerton md
    For flash pan I believe black is preferred. Pyrodex is much harder to ignite and does not come in a 4f size. Main charge either is acceptable. Hope this helps.
     

    Jd2020

    Active Member
    Nov 20, 2020
    126
    Queen Anne’s Co
    It’s Limited, but in my experience:

    Pyrodex as main charge is ok but not ideal. Perfectly safe just difficult. The substitute powders ignite a few hundred degrees higher than real black powder. They are hard to ignite in a flintlock. A percussion cap gun (cap lock) makes more flame more reliably so subs light better in them.

    Your best bet is to get a little real black powder 3f (fffg) or 4f (ffffg) and duplex your load. Use the black in your pan (do not try pyrodex in the pan) and also pour five to ten grains down the barrel. Then pour the main pyrodex charge MINUS the black amount into barrel.
    Have fun.
     

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    22,737
    Socialist State of Maryland
    I hate to tell you this but pyrodex will not work properly in a flint lock. The only way to use pyrodex is if you use a 20 grain charge of 3F black under a reduced Pyrodex charge. Just this past weekend I was shooting my 50 cal flintlock. I wanted to use up some Pyrodex Rifle powder so I used 20 gns of 3F black under 40 grains of Pyrodex R with 3 F black in the pan.

    You need Black Powder in the priming pan or you won't get ignition. If you load Pyrodex in the barrel and BP in the pan, you will get delayed ignition to the point where it is detrimental towards accuracy.

    You can order black powder from Powder Valley or you can go to The Back Creek Gun Shop at Fort Shenandoah near Winchester.
     

    Topher

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 8, 2008
    4,817
    Fredneck
    Fascinating. Thanks to all who replied. I think a trip to Winchester is in my near future. Just going to get all black powder and keep it simple.

    If you are going to the reloading shop in Winchester that I think you may be going to... If there is a big guy named Stuart behind the counter, tell him you know me. He will be sure to take good care of you.
    Good luck.
     

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    22,737
    Socialist State of Maryland
    You can very carefully grind the 3ff into a granulation for priming by hand. Use a wooden mortar.
    Try it first though to see if it works for you.
    Pyrodex is perfectly safe in a flint rifle its just harder to ignite.

    When I was with Marriottsville Muzzleloaders (maybe 30 years ago) we experimented with priming powder and found that 3 F ignites as easily as 4 F and the burn time difference between 3F and 4F does not affect your accuracy.

    I still have my mortar and pestal though. :innocent0
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,282
    HoCo
    It may be just me but the thing I liked about 4F after using the 3f was it came out easier in the spring loaded pan priming brass thingie I used. If you were closer I’d gift you some 3F and 4F

    I did not notice any ignition difference but I’m not that good at all in setting up my flinters. If they went bang I was happy.

    I take it you did some reading on setting things up for good ignition?
    Flint, frizzen contact , powder fill amount in the pan, touch hole, bla bla bla. Ask 10 people how they do it you may get 10 answers but will get good ideas .


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    K31

    "Part of that Ultra MAGA Crowd"
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 15, 2006
    35,632
    AA county
    When I was with Marriottsville Muzzleloaders (maybe 30 years ago) we experimented with priming powder and found that 3 F ignites as easily as 4 F and the burn time difference between 3F and 4F does not affect your accuracy.

    This is what I was thinking. I've seen demos of Redcoats loading technique and after biting off the top of the paper cart with the bullet they primed the pan with the same powder they then poured down the barrel.
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,282
    HoCo
    This is what I was thinking. I've seen demos of Redcoats loading technique and after biting off the top of the paper cart with the bullet they primed the pan with the same powder they then poured down the barrel.

    Yup, they cared about speed of reloading and if it just went bang, that is all that mattered.
     

    Opusnight

    Member
    Mar 16, 2012
    5
    Westminster, MD
    4F was designed really for flash pans only, so use it there. I've been shooting rock-locks for a while now, and you do notice a difference, albeit slight. Always go with the real mccoy, black powder for 4F. I'm a believer in using black powder over pyrodex or other substitutes in general. As for availability, try going to Fort Chambers (Chambersburg PA), or a little further away to Dixon's near Allentown - - I've never run into them being out of powder in their stocks. And both shops are nirvana for muzzleloaders!
     

    Mike OTDP

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 12, 2008
    3,319
    As others have noted, Pyrodex won't reliably ignite with a flintlock. People have made duplex loads work (~10 grains of BP, then Pyrodex on top), but I'd strongly recommend getting proper black powder, both as propellant and priming charge. 4F is good for priming when hunting...for match work, I advise using Swiss Null B to prime. It's about 7F, ignition is significantly quicker.

    Pro tip: Before loading, insert your touchhole pick. Then load. This will ensure not merely a good clear path for the flash, but a path into the main charge.
     

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    22,737
    Socialist State of Maryland
    As others have noted, Pyrodex won't reliably ignite with a flintlock. People have made duplex loads work (~10 grains of BP, then Pyrodex on top), but I'd strongly recommend getting proper black powder, both as propellant and priming charge. 4F is good for priming when hunting...for match work, I advise using Swiss Null B to prime. It's about 7F, ignition is significantly quicker.

    Pro tip: Before loading, insert your touchhole pick. Then load. This will ensure not merely a good clear path for the flash, but a path into the main charge.

    Where are you getting your Null B? I have asked at Dixon's, Back Creek and Fort Chambers and none had it.
     

    Mike OTDP

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 12, 2008
    3,319
    I've gotten mine at Back Creek. They might have to order it in special from the Swiss importer. But it's on their Web site.
     

    CharlieFoxtrot

    ,
    Industry Partner
    Sep 30, 2007
    2,527
    Foothills of Appalachia
    Thanks again to everyone. Took a day trip to Fort Chambers this week. Great place, great people. Spent an hour plus there poking around and talking to them. Came home with everything I needed (1lb of 4F and 2F) and a bunch of stuff that I didn’t need as well. :D
     

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