NPRM - Definition of Frame / Receiver

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  • Mark75H

    MD Wear&Carry Instructor
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 25, 2011
    17,172
    Outside the Gates
    What of the pre-68 firearms without serial numbers? They are somehow safer?
     

    K3LAG

    Active Member
    The ATF's cost analysis for the cost of properly marking a Personally Made Firearm (PMF) is hilarious. They claim you can do it with a $20 punch set from Amazon and given what a clerk gets paid it should only cost $4 per gun. They provide a link to the punch set they reference and it makes characters way too large to get the required information on the little plate in most 80% frames. In reality, a laser engraver or CNC machine will be required.

    It also requires any gunsmith that takes in a PMF for work to mark it. Most people that build PMF's won't take them to gunsmiths, but for those that do they will have to pay to have them marked in addition to whatever work they wanted done.

    It's all just silly. At the end of the day it's just a few more firearms the bad guys have to deface the serial numbers on.
     

    CaptChaos

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 1, 2008
    751
    Calvert County, MD
    What is this ****ing ********? This has got to be the most intentionally vague yet all encompassing load of horseshit I’ve ever seen strung together. How in the literal **** are we supposed to interpret this? It’s nearly incomprehensible.
     

    CaptPrice

    Member
    Jul 14, 2019
    58
    Annapolis
    You have the option to comment on the proposed changes, just like for pistol braces last year. Everyone: leave a professional and polite comment, citing clear examples and providing evidence, that what they're doing is unconstitutional an unenforceable. Then, contact your representatives and senators letting them know that this is unacceptable. All of the comments can eventually be used in a court against the ATF, they're inviting in their own evidence
     

    KIBarrister

    Opinionated Libertarian
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 10, 2013
    3,923
    Kent Island/Centreville
    What is this ****ing ********? This has got to be the most intentionally vague yet all encompassing load of horseshit I’ve ever seen strung together. How in the literal **** are we supposed to interpret this? It’s nearly incomprehensible.

    Yeah, this makes tax and bankruptcy code seem simple - even for someone who does this shit for a living.
     

    CaptPrice

    Member
    Jul 14, 2019
    58
    Annapolis
    You have the option to comment on the proposed changes, just like for pistol braces last year. Everyone: leave a professional and polite comment, citing clear examples and providing evidence, that what they're doing is unconstitutional an unenforceable. Then, contact your representatives and senators letting them know that this is unacceptable. All of the comments can eventually be used in a court against the ATF, they're inviting in their own evidence

    Here's the link to comment:

    https://atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/definition-frame-or-receiver
     

    CaptChaos

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 1, 2008
    751
    Calvert County, MD
    Hey guys, I’ve deciphered this load of ******** and simplified it:

    Upper? Firearm
    Frame? Firearm
    Receiver? Firearm
    Finger guns? Firearm
    Paper airplane? Firearm
     

    Kicken Wing

    Snakes and Sparklers
    Apr 5, 2014
    868
    WASH-CO
    I wasted the paper and ink a few hours ago so that I can read through it. 115 pages. People got paid to make this sh!t up.
     

    Boondock Saint

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 11, 2008
    24,366
    White Marsh
    One wonders at what point a meaningful percentage of peaceable but free men and women will no longer give a flying fvck about what bureaucrats say what and when they say it, and what happens after that point is reached.
     

    Bob A

    όυ φροντισ
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    30,687
    One wonders at what point a meaningful percentage of peaceable but free men and women will no longer give a flying fvck about what bureaucrats say what and when they say it, and what happens after that point is reached.

    Meaningful percentage has probably been reached by now, but not many of them are in MD. Location, location . . .
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    Even with the best jig and some experience, it takes most people 4+ hours to finish an 80% into a functional firearm. Someone with an advanced CNC machining center can turn a block into a complete receiver in 15 minutes or less. Hard to believe that anything done by hand with a jig is readily convertible.

    *cough* 30 minutes to machine, 30 to assemble other parts *cough*
    I can do them in 30 minutes. Can build an AR from parts in about the same timeframe.

    I could probably machine a crude receiver in a couple of hours from a block of metal without a jug. It’d be ugly but it could function.
    Say what?

    A functioning firearm sans serial number presents a tangible risk to the public, how exactly?
    On the flip side, how does a serial number make it any safer?
     

    ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,499
    God's Country
    On the flip side, how does a serial number make it any safer?

    We only have to go back 80 years for the answer.

    ab274dc53d6dc9cf0acef297884f94d1.jpg


    Remember......it’s for your safety.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    <AFT>
    Obviously, once it has been used in a crime (which all firearms eventually will be) IT CAN BE TRACED! (Jeez, we wrote "traced" in the upgraded document like a million times. Can you not read ???)
    </AFT>

    Ah. My bad. Thanks for clearing that up.
     

    Mark75H

    MD Wear&Carry Instructor
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 25, 2011
    17,172
    Outside the Gates
    Legislation by regulation. I think its foolish because a court challenge (which would be LAW rather than regulation) could make neither side of an AR type firearm the regulated part.

    How many pre-1968 firearms with no serial number are in circulation?

    This is simply a feel good piece of fluff with potential to fully backfire on them
     

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