Buying a rifle in PA

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  • arbud

    Active Member
    Jan 27, 2008
    809
    Towson
    If I were to buy a 9mm semi auto carbine in PA. Could the seller just meet me at an ffl in PA and do the normal paperwork and money or would the ffl there have to send it to an ffl in MD for paperwork and money.
    I dont think I have asked this question before so I think I might be clear of any unnecessary un wanted comments.
     

    DutchV

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 8, 2012
    4,726
    You can do that at an FFL in PA. They have a PA-specific background check that costs about $10 (or it did the last time I used it.)
     

    Augie

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 30, 2007
    4,517
    Central MD
    As long as the PA FFL will do it, best to ask first. Even though it's legal some PA FFL's won't sell to MD residents.
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,351
    HoCo
    PA can be pain in the arse. At shows, the last time I bought up there, it was an hour wait on the phone. I ended up transfering through scsg and picking up the next week.
    It MAY be like that every saturday up there, dunno. Gettysburg is this weekend BTW.
    Make sure FFL will do the transfer.
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,695
    PA
    One weird catch with private sales, it must be transferred from an individual to another individual by an FFL in the recipient's state, in this case MD. A PA FFL can transfer a rifle from a MD resident to a PA resident, but can't transfer a rifle from a PA resident to a MD resident. A MD resident can buy a rifle from an FFL in PA provided it is not prohibited in either state. A PA FFL transferring a rifle into their inventory from an individual seller, then transfering from the FFL to a MD buyer is a grey area, generally seen as OK if a MD resident is basically buying a used gun from a PA FFL. Have run into this a couple times, and had to ship a firearm or take the drive to MD to complete the sale lawfully. Could hand over > 10rd mags in PA, then have the MD FFL do the transfer provided the mags were not "offered for sale" in MD. It's kinda stupid, and some FFLs might not be aware of it right away, but they catch it soon as they call PICS

    Under Federal law, an unlicensed individual is prohibited from transferring a firearm to an
    individual who does not reside in the State where the transferee resides. Generally, for a person
    to lawfully transfer a firearm to an unlicensed person who resides out of State, the firearm must
    be shipped to a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) within the recipient’s State of residence. He or
    she may then receive the firearm from the FFL upon completion of an ATF Form 4473 and a
    NICS background check. More information can be obtained on the ATF website at www.atf.gov
    and http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html. The GCA provides an exception
    from this prohibition for temporary loans or rentals of firearms for lawful sporting purposes.
    Thus, for example, a friend visiting you may borrow a firearm from you to go hunting. Another
    exception is provided for transfers of firearms to nonresidents to carry out a lawful bequest or
    acquisition by intestate succession. This exception would authorize the transfer of a firearm to a
    nonresident who inherits a firearm under the will of a decedent. See 18 U.S.C. 922(a)(5).
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    One weird catch with private sales, it must be transferred from an individual to another individual by an FFL in the recipient's state, in this case MD. A PA FFL can transfer a rifle from a MD resident to a PA resident, but can't transfer a rifle from a PA resident to a MD resident. A MD resident can buy a rifle from an FFL in PA provided it is not prohibited in either state. A PA FFL transferring a rifle into their inventory from an individual seller, then transfering from the FFL to a MD buyer is a grey area, generally seen as OK if a MD resident is basically buying a used gun from a PA FFL. Have run into this a couple times, and had to ship a firearm or take the drive to MD to complete the sale lawfully. Could hand over > 10rd mags in PA, then have the MD FFL do the transfer provided the mags were not "offered for sale" in MD. It's kinda stupid, and some FFLs might not be aware of it right away, but they catch it soon as they call PICS

    You are incorrect.

    The PA FLL will receive the firearm and log it into their bound book. Then they will transfer to the buyer and log that into the bound book.

    The PA resident does not transfer the firearm to the MD resident directly.

    This is done all the time. And I have purchased several firearms that way.

    What you probably ran into is that many non-MD FFLs will not transfer to an MD resident, due to the whacky MD laws. They are afraid of transferring a firearm that is illegal in MD.

    I purchased a rifle at a VA gun show from a private seller. The FIFTH FFL I checked with at the show would do the transfer. The first 4 would not.
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,695
    PA
    You are incorrect.

    The PA FLL will receive the firearm and log it into their bound book. Then they will transfer to the buyer and log that into the bound book.

    The PA resident does not transfer the firearm to the MD resident directly.

    This is done all the time. And I have purchased several firearms that way.

    What you probably ran into is that many non-MD FFLs will not transfer to an MD resident, due to the whacky MD laws. They are afraid of transferring a firearm that is illegal in MD.

    I purchased a rifle at a VA gun show from a private seller. The FIFTH FFL I checked with at the show would do the transfer. The first 4 would not.

    Section 3, F. This is the latest, but similar guidance in the past.
    https://www.atf.gov/file/88181/download

    There are a few other ATF guidelines about it. Some exceptions too like inheritance or .mil with orders, but not generally allowed. Have had PICS(PA's NICS) stop PA FFLs from facilitating an interstate transfer when a MD resident comes up here to buy something from a non FFL. Other states that use federal NICS might get away with it, or if the FFL transferred it to their inventory, then did a 2nd transfer to the buyer might be able to get away with it. There are FFLs that won't sell to MD residents when lawful, this isn't the case here. Bluefins does enough in both states they might be able to shed some light on it, but know of 3 other FFLs around here that got stopped when they tried.
     

    Bullfrog

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 8, 2009
    15,323
    Carroll County
    Section 3, F. This is the latest, but similar guidance in the past.
    https://www.atf.gov/file/88181/download

    There are a few other ATF guidelines about it. Some exceptions too like inheritance or .mil with orders, but not generally allowed. Have had PICS(PA's NICS) stop PA FFLs from facilitating an interstate transfer when a MD resident comes up here to buy something from a non FFL. Other states that use federal NICS might get away with it, or if the FFL transferred it to their inventory, then did a 2nd transfer to the buyer might be able to get away with it. There are FFLs that won't sell to MD residents when lawful, this isn't the case here. Bluefins does enough in both states they might be able to shed some light on it, but know of 3 other FFLs around here that got stopped when they tried.

    Everything you've quoted refers to it not being lawful for an 'unlicensed person' to transfer the firearm. If an FFL is is doing the transfer, it isn't being transferred by an unlicensed person. It states later in your link the 'unlicensed person' cannot use NICS, and clearly the FFL can, so all of that appears to apply to a situation in which two individuals from different states might be attempting to do a transfer without going through an FFL.

    I'm certainly willing to be shown I'm wrong, but it appears to me that maybe PA authorities (whoever runs PICS) is setting limits above what the law requires. This kind of transfer happens in states other than PA with no problems.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    In every case I have done a transfer out of my home state, the FFL entered the firearm from the seller into his bound book (transferred from seller to FFL) and then recorded the transfer from the FFL to me (transferred to me).

    There are two transfers, seller to FFL and FFL to buyer. That is NOT a transfer from seller to buyer directly.
     

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