The Official 1-4X Scope Thread

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  • ThumperIII

    Active Member
    Jun 11, 2009
    455
    Maryland
    I posed this question on another forum but received limited response. Hoping mdshooters is better.

    Have a factory standard 16" barrel, chrome lined, mid-length gas system and mid weight barrel with FFS in 5.56 for my first AR. It will do what I want without breaking my bank. For now, the 5.56 will be doing duty as my all-around semi- rifle: plinking (fun), deer hunting and as SHTF potential - basically everything except for competition (just not interested).
    For a variety of reasons (gun capability, caliber, intended usage, local terrain and cover, and personal) I am about 90% decided on a 1-4x scope as my best option in addition to the Troy folding rear BUIS. Have two scopes in current consideration: Nikon M-223 1-4x BDC (Midway) and the Burris 1-4X TAC30 Illuminated Ballistic CQ 5.56 #200443 (not XTS W/Fastfire II recticle). Both seem reasonably solidly built and clear optically for this price range. Both seem to get about the same proportion of rave vs complaint reviews. Aside from the turret differences that I read about, I have some comparison questions:


    I have lost shot opportunities when a lesser light transmission capable scope failed to resolve a target I could see by eye. Nikon 92-95% vs Burris ???.
    But also read where the fine line & small circles recticle of the Nikon BDC could not be seen against a dark background vs Burris larger illuminated circle & dots. (Burris circle should be faster to acquire at 1X both eyes open)
    Does Burris recticle somewhat float like a reddot (less parallax - exact eye placement problem).
    Which scope has least distortion? Best same aim with zoom and click adj return to zero?
    Nikon one piece vs Burris PEPR mount.
    How high is the center of the scope relative to a (F type) FFS. Will I need to go with low gas block and folding FS? Some FS in FOV not a problem unless blocks way too much view at low power.
    Burris bullet drop comp is for 223 Rem 62 gr (closer to 62-75 grs of hunting ammo) vs Nikon 55 gr NATO. But wouldn't either trajectory be real close at 300yds and under?
    Burris TAC30 2.4 MOA center dot at 4x (4MOA at 1x?) covers a lot of target area at 100yds is this too much or OK with the probable accuracy of 16" chromed barrel vs Nikon finer line & open circles recticle?
    Burris 6MM pupil exit vs Nikon 4MM at 4X. much difference in light low transmission and eye alignment?
    Problems / Complaints of Burris entire scope end rotating & no hinged cover use.
    Is adequate eye relief a problem with either scope?
    Compare customer svs and warranty?
    (Millet DMS was looked at and passed over)


    Any other good scope candidates in this price/quality range? Any strong vote for a 2-8X over a 1-4? Have a bull barrel Ruger M77 in 22-250 w 4-16 scope for accuracy needs, just a slow twist limits bullet weight.

    Some shooters may be able to afford to just toss a scope in the drawer if it doesn't perform well, but whatever I get will probably have to be my one scope for my AR for as long as it lasts. About $300 is my top end for scope (plus mount cost)
     

    tzoid

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Aug 8, 2007
    1,543
    Wow....That post is awfully wordy..

    I can't read that much at one sitting or I'll fall asleep :innocent0

    I had a Leupold Mark 4 1.5x5x20 MR/T M2 Illum. Reticle with a LaRue mount and it was really nice. I ended up selling it after a few year because I found it too slow shooting off hand and the 1.5 was a little bothersome.

    I now have a NightForce 1-4x24 NXS with the FC-2 Reticle and so far I like it.. It's much faster and it seems to work better off hand. I'm shooting it on my middy this Sunday in a 3 gun match so I will report back.

    I have friends with the Burris and they tell me they want a NightForce :D
     

    ThumperIII

    Active Member
    Jun 11, 2009
    455
    Maryland
    Just saw a potential tie-breaker. Brownells = free M223 mount with any M223 scope. Except they don't offer the BDC recticle on the 1-4x. As bad as deciding on the AR...too many damn good selection choices and only the money for one.
     

    Chris L

    Bite me
    Oct 31, 2007
    1,426
    Catonsville
    Just saw a potential tie-breaker. Brownells = free M223 mount with any M223 scope. Except they don't offer the BDC recticle on the 1-4x. As bad as deciding on the AR...too many damn good selection choices and only the money for one.

    i believe you can get the BDC reticle on the 1-4x from Midway.
     

    JeepDriver

    Self confessed gun snob
    Aug 28, 2006
    5,193
    White Marsh
    NightForce is one of the best in the mid range category, after that the Trijicon then the Burris.

    If Trijicon ever pulls their head out of their ass and puts a BDC in the TR24 that may surpass the Nightforce.
     

    Russ D

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 10, 2008
    12,029
    Sykesville
    The Nikon and the Burris are both very good deals for the $. If I had to choose I'd take the Nikon with the very nice 223 mount. I have this combo and it's very easy to shoot accurate and fast with the 4 moa dot. If shots are under 200 it doesn't cover enough of the target to be a huge handicap. The glass on this scope is extremely bright and clear for this price point.
     

    clandestine

    AR-15 Savant
    Oct 13, 2008
    37,031
    Elkton, MD
    Burris Scopes are not very durable at all, and their CS can be spotty (Has been in the past). I have broken 2 Burris Scopes and know about a 6 customers who have had problems with Burris Scopes as well. Nikon, Weaver, Leupold, N.F., Swavorski, Trijicon, U.S. Optics, P.R., are all good choices.
     

    ThumperIII

    Active Member
    Jun 11, 2009
    455
    Maryland
    I do like reviews of the scope clarity of the Nikon M223. The only drawback seems that the recticle just does not appear to stand out against a dark background. Haven't found anywhere yet to actually handle/sight one - just going by online pics thru the scope. Dubious quality I know but it the only source to date.

    If the Burris TAC30 is out of consideration on optical and QA issues, any thoughts on the clarity and durability of the Leatherwood CMR 1-4 w/ illuminated recticle. I did read the eye relief was a bit critical. What else when compared to the M223?
     

    bman940

    Bart, Nikon Pro Staff
    Oct 11, 2010
    156
    North Texas
    Chris is correct, you can get the Nikon M-223 1-4 with the BDC reticles at Midway. I believe they are also participating int he M-223 AR Mount give away as well. I have never shot using this particular scope before but I have shot a lot using the M-223 1-4 Point Blank Reticle and I like the heck out of it. I would defintely not say I am a great shooter but I can ring a 10 in. steel gong all day at 200 yards with this scope on my stock DPMS.
    I have chatted with a few guys on this site who have bought the 1-4 BDC from Midway and really liked it. Hopefully they can chime in as well.
    Whatever you choose, always great seeing pics!
    Bart
    Nikon Pro Staffhttp://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/bman940/DSCN1282.jpg
     

    fireantresq

    Member
    Oct 4, 2010
    87
    i'm glad you guys are talking about this...perfect timing, I'm looking for the same thing myself.
    I was considering the leupold mark ar, the burris tac30, burris xtr and vortex viper pst. I've been reading everything I can find and so far, bang for buck the vortex is in the lead. I'm tagging this thread though, I'd love to hear some other opinions as well.
    I read somewhere that the nikon was a little tricky tracking moving targets (this reticle or blurry or something to that effect)...otherwise I think I would consider that as well.
    Good luck in your decision...lord knows, it's not an easy one. ;)
     

    gunrunner

    New MK12 Mod 0 Fan
    Dec 20, 2008
    745
    Clear Spring, MD.
    I have a leupold mark AR. I love it. Super clear and crisp, BDC works great. I have ranged it out to 300yrds and it was spot on. The only thing i have that is 4x and i use alot is the millet DMS. I know the Op has already eliminated that one.:shrug:
     

    n00dles

    Hardcore Conservative
    Dec 18, 2008
    188
    Right Behind You!!!
    I'd like to temporarily hijack this thread & ask if anybody knows of a good, compact, fixed 4X (or more) scope? Maybe something similar to an ACOG, but for about a 10th of the price. I currently have a Millet DMS-1. I like it, but it's too big to keep my flip-up BUIS mounted. I can't seem to find anything worthwhile. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
     

    mdjamesd

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 6, 2007
    1,726
    Towson
    I read somewhere that the nikon was a little tricky tracking moving targets (this reticle or blurry or something to that effect)...otherwise I think I would consider that as well.

    I've had no problems tracking and hitting moving targets with mine....rabbits hate it
     

    ThumperIII

    Active Member
    Jun 11, 2009
    455
    Maryland
    Just to close out my part of this thread: I ended up with a Nikon Nikoplex 2-8x on the free mount promo. WHY? Because I realized I already had several 1-4X or 1.5 -5X scopes mounted on other rifles and could always switch 'em out. I will probably spend most of my sighting in the 2-4x area, but always have the higher power option when desired. At the low end magnification, the larger objective lens (compared to a 1-4x) gives some great low light capability. Not as fast acquiring as a 1-4 illuminated recticle although I found that if there is enough light to adequately distinguish the target, I can see the recticle of this scope fine. I don't compete so I don't need speed as a priority.
    And I added a V-CAS sling, too.
     

    Russ D

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 10, 2008
    12,029
    Sykesville
    Just to close out my part of this thread: I ended up with a Nikon Nikoplex 2-8x on the free mount promo. WHY? Because I realized I already had several 1-4X or 1.5 -5X scopes mounted on other rifles and could always switch 'em out. I will probably spend most of my sighting in the 2-4x area, but always have the higher power option when desired. At the low end magnification, the larger objective lens (compared to a 1-4x) gives some great low light capability. Not as fast acquiring as a 1-4 illuminated recticle although I found that if there is enough light to adequately distinguish the target, I can see the recticle of this scope fine. I don't compete so I don't need speed as a priority.
    And I added a V-CAS sling, too.

    Nice choice, I might end up with one of those myself.
     

    cobra

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 26, 2009
    2,058
    White Marsh
    For what it's worth.
    After much searching. Ended up buying the Nikon 223 BDC scope with the free mount deal.
    I have yet to range tested but feel it will do very well as a plinking,target presision scope for my AR.
    Much of the info gathered here helped me decide on this scope.
    Personally you need to decide what amount your willing to spend on glass.
    This will help narrow down your search:)
     

    Idempotent

    Zombies' Worst Nightmare
    Apr 12, 2010
    1,623
    I have the Nikon M-223 2-8X on my AR. I just got it very recently during the free M-223 mount give-away. The mount is kind of involved but once you get it on there it seems solid (i.e. it's definitely not quick-detach). The optical quality on the scope is very good. I would say it's comparable to my Leupold Mark 4 4.5-14X, which is a scope that costs a little bit over twice as much, mind you. Nikon knows their glass (and since they do lots of high-end photography equipment, they have to).
     

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