HB 638 Untraceable & Undetectable Firearms

lazarus · Feb 4, 2021

teratos said:
It's a Bill of Rights. Apparently, your definition of a Right is different than mine. You go ahead and give up your Rights when the Dems finally repeal the 2A....

A right is whatever the government decides to give to its citizenry subject to the citizenry deciding they want a different government.

You have no natural rights. Perhaps it is because I am not religious, but I am not seeing anything god given. You have no natural right to life. If you did, such a thing as a stillborn baby could not exist. You have no natural right to pursue happiness. All of this stuff is stuff our founders decided was really important though and built it in to the constitution. Shortly after they went "oh, you know what, we need to enumerate some other restrictions on government" and came up with 10 amendments to the constitution. Actually it was 12, but the first and second amendments were not adopted by the states, just 3-12 in the circulated list.

James Madison believed they were important to preserve liberty of the citizens. But they are not rights granted to citizens, they are expressly restrictions upon the government.

If the 10 in the bill of rights is so darned important that they should never be amended then I guess we need to amend the constitution saying those 10 are sacrosanct and now no amendments or do overs for those 10.

The framers intentionally made it hard to amend the constitution, but they also recognized they might have missed something or that society changes with time.

If they hadn't, black people wouldn't have citizenship among other things. Presidents could continue running for office election after election (lets not forget FDR won 4 times in a row before the constitution was amended).

teratos · Feb 4, 2021

lazarus said:
A right is whatever the government decides to give to its citizenry subject to the citizenry deciding they want a different government.

You have no natural rights. Perhaps it is because I am not religious, but I am not seeing anything god given. You have no natural right to life. If you did, such a thing as a stillborn baby could not exist. You have no natural right to pursue happiness. All of this stuff is stuff our founders decided was really important though and built it in to the constitution. Shortly after they went "oh, you know what, we need to enumerate some other restrictions on government" and came up with 10 amendments to the constitution. Actually it was 12, but the first and second amendments were not adopted by the states, just 3-12 in the circulated list.

James Madison believed they were important to preserve liberty of the citizens. But they are not rights granted to citizens, they are expressly restrictions upon the government.

If the 10 in the bill of rights is so darned important that they should never be amended then I guess we need to amend the constitution saying those 10 are sacrosanct and now no amendments or do overs for those 10.

The framers intentionally made it hard to amend the constitution, but they also recognized they might have missed something or that society changes with time.

If they hadn't, black people wouldn't have citizenship among other things. Presidents could continue running for office election after election (lets not forget FDR won 4 times in a row before the constitution was amended).

I'm not against Amendments, but I believe that self defense and gun ownership are natural rights. You don't need God for it. The Right existed before quill was put to parchment.

Bob A · Feb 4, 2021

16 states have gone Constitutional Carry; 26 more are Shall Issue.

MD is one of 8 far-Left holdouts, bucking the trend.

There are probably a million or more new gun owners in the nation, thanks to Dem-sponsored and assisted riots and destruction. These people will not be pleased to have their self-protection devices legislated into manhole covers. Their politicians know this. Some don't care; they're latched onto the gravy train, and will do what the billionaires tell them, of course. But the thrust here and now is toward more 2A freedom.

NY, NJ, MD, CA can fight it, but that will merely alienate the more moderate. People who can afford to are already fleeing those states. The drain on tax revenue is beginning to pinch. With the lockdown, people will not stand for increased taxation to cover revenue lost by productive people leaving failing states.

It's up to the leaders in the states that are gaining population to make it clear to their new voters that elections have consequences, and that these voters have a hand in preventing the Californication of their new homes.

We here are in the grip of leftist fanatics, and will remain so. This prevents us from seeing the larger picture. With Biden illegally in office, the situation will deteriorate even more, prompting realistic re-evaluation of what's going down. Most people are not stupid (it hurts me to write that) and can recognise where their best interests lie, unless they're totally blinded by media disinformation.

The Dems went far too far, far too quickly, because Trump was in position to knock down their house of cards. The sudden totalitarian takeover is awakening the residents of the vast middle ground. It will be dealt with, but not as quickly as we'd like, and not without difficulty.

KevinK · Feb 4, 2021

" .... endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness ...."

NOT granted by any government.

Always have existed, always will, regardless of tyranny.

PowPow · Feb 4, 2021

lazarus said:
A right is whatever the government decides to give to its citizenry subject to the citizenry deciding they want a different government.

You have no natural rights.

Do you have a right to breathe? Does government give that to you, or were you offered that opportunity by nature of your birth in a suitable environment for such an act?

My answers are that you do have a right to breathe, and that such is a natural right. The same can be said for the right to life and defense thereof. Those rights do not come from government. They are inherent to our very nature, a natural right.

Occam · Feb 4, 2021

lazarus said:
I guess just remove the parts of the constitution you don't like, because the framers built in a method of amending the constitution. That is all the bill of rights is, is the first 10 amendments to the constitution. So if you argue it can't be amended, you are literally arguing it shouldn't exist to begin with. Or you are saying they should have stopped after 10 (there are some pretty important ones after #10).

Without going down the entire rabbit hole here, suffice it to say that many constitutional scholars will explain (and have) in exhaustive detail why the singular lump of cohesive goodies that make up The (singular!) Bill Of Rights - adopted in whole as a take-it-or-leave-it predicate for the ratification of the entire constitution - is not just a list of individual amendments, like those that came later.

Occam · Feb 4, 2021

lazarus said:
You have no natural rights.

The entire premise of the constitution is that you DO have natural rights.

Simple, objective reason dictates that you have the right to defend your life and those of your family. It's literally the most fundamental feature of life. Any other perspective, which honors instead others' power to simply kill you at will, is death cult stuff. No rational person looks at it any other way, and the framers didn't either.

Art3 · Feb 15, 2021

Submission/sign up for testimony against the Senate version of this bill (SB0624) ends today at 3pm

Kicken Wing · Feb 15, 2021

Bump. 20 minutes left to submit testimony.

Mr.Culper · Feb 15, 2021

Unfortunately I was working all day.
Any law that is passed while barring direct public input is null and void

Nickberg500 · Feb 15, 2021

DAMN IT. This was the one bill I wanted to testify on no matter what. Now I'm locked out of entering the lottery for testifying.

I'll still email all of them but it p*sses me off how many hoops we have to jump through.

Adolph Oliver Bush · Feb 15, 2021

Occam said:
Without going down the entire rabbit hole here, suffice it to say that many constitutional scholars will explain (and have) in exhaustive detail why the singular lump of cohesive goodies that make up The (singular!) Bill Of Rights - adopted in whole as a take-it-or-leave-it predicate for the ratification of the entire constitution - is not just a list of individual amendments, like those that came later.

I often bring up the Massachusetts Compromise. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_Compromise

The BOR was indeed added to get the whole COTUS approved in the first place. The rights referenced within are all individual rights, not state or federal government rights. Does anyone think that the 2A was included to ensure that the government could have arms? Be sure to make that point to your anti friends and legislators. "...The right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." It cannot be stated more clearly.

I hope that everyone who complained in the MDS echo chamber about the assault on gun rights also did something about it today. Every day is a choice. You can do something, or you can do nothing.

Art3 · Feb 15, 2021

Nickberg500 said:
DAMN IT. This was the one bill I wanted to testify on no matter what. Now I'm locked out of entering the lottery for testifying.

I'll still email all of them but it p*sses me off how many hoops we have to jump through.

You can still do the HB version. Testimony on 3/1, sign up 2/26. You should definitely express your disappointment over not being able to testify to all your reps (even ______ Larry).

Art3 · Feb 15, 2021

Adolph Oliver Bush said:
I often bring up the Massachusetts Compromise. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_Compromise

The BOR was indeed added to get the whole COTUS approved in the first place. The rights referenced within are all individual rights, not state or federal government rights. Does anyone think that the 2A was included to ensure that the government could have arms? Be sure to make that point to your anti friends and legislators. "...The right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." It cannot be stated more clearly.

I hope that everyone who complained in the MDS echo chamber about the assault on gun rights also did something about it today. Every day is a choice. You can do something, or you can do nothing.

It sure seems like it's the same "The People" that all the Ammendments apply to, doesn't it :innocent0

Criticizing and naysaying, if done enthusiastically enough, is something, right? :rolleyes:

Adolph Oliver Bush · Feb 15, 2021

Art3 said:
It sure seems like it's the same "The People" that all the Ammendments apply to, doesn't it

Criticizing and naysaying, if done enthusiastically enough, is something, right?

I see what you did there...

Kicken Wing · Feb 15, 2021

Nickberg500 said:
DAMN IT. This was the one bill I wanted to testify on no matter what. Now I'm locked out of entering the lottery for testifying.

I'll still email all of them but it p*sses me off how many hoops we have to jump through.

I hear you. It is one that I feel passionately about too. Art3 listed the date for sign up for the HB version. Mark that one down.

Kicken Wing · Feb 15, 2021

Adolph Oliver Bush said:
I often bring up the Massachusetts Compromise. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_Compromise

The BOR was indeed added to get the whole COTUS approved in the first place. The rights referenced within are all individual rights, not state or federal government rights. Does anyone think that the 2A was included to ensure that the government could have arms? Be sure to make that point to your anti friends and legislators. "...The right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." It cannot be stated more clearly.

I hope that everyone who complained in the MDS echo chamber about the assault on gun rights also did something about it today. Every day is a choice. You can do something, or you can do nothing.

I side with you and Art3. If someone challenges you to a fight then you have to show up. Whether or not you get your a$$ kicked is beside the point. If you don't show up then you lost in more ways than one. I have to admit that I have not had my share of getting my a$$ kicked in Annapolis. I went 7 years of maintaining silence after taking up firearms as a hobby. I am not going to stay silent anymore. I have had enough.

Nickberg500 · Feb 16, 2021

Art3 said:
You can still do the HB version. Testimony on 3/1, sign up 2/26. You should definitely express your disappointment over not being able to testify to all your reps (even ______ Larry).

Kicken Wing said:
I hear you. It is one that I feel passionately about too. Art3 listed the date for sign up for the HB version. Mark that one down.

Not sure how I missed you guys responding. I'll mark the date down. I just called every senator on the judicial committee, and I emailed them my testimony.

Kicken Wing · Feb 16, 2021

Nickberg500 said:
Not sure how I missed you guys responding. I'll mark the date down. I just called every senator on the judicial committee, and I emailed them my testimony.

I am curious to see how far this one goes this year. The beginning of April is a long way off.

Allen65 · Feb 16, 2021

Kicken Wing said:
I am curious to see how far this one goes this year. The beginning of April is a long way off.

We thought the same way about April in 2019 & 2020. 2019 got cut short by Busch passing away, 2020 got cut short by COVID. Anybody starting a pool on what could cut the 2021 session short? Swarms of radioactive, mutant land crabs, maybe?

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