This is coming soon (TM) to MD (Jerry's in NY State)
- Thread starter SPQM
- Start date
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Bullfrog
Ultimate Member
A little explanation would have been helpful.
It sounds like the company thinks they found something that complies with the letter of NY and Federal law, evades the NY 'Assault Weapon' ban, and the NY authorities disagree.
http://www.deltaleveldefense.com/ct4-2a-other-firearm
From the pics and description, it is an AR pattern firearm which has a rifle length barrel (so not a pistol under the NY legal definition) and a pistol brace, and a pistol buffer tube to which a stock cannot be attached (so not a rifle under the NY legal definition, and therefore not an assault weapon).
I hope they win just to piss NY off, but I wouldn't want to be a test case.
It sounds like the company thinks they found something that complies with the letter of NY and Federal law, evades the NY 'Assault Weapon' ban, and the NY authorities disagree.
http://www.deltaleveldefense.com/ct4-2a-other-firearm
From the pics and description, it is an AR pattern firearm which has a rifle length barrel (so not a pistol under the NY legal definition) and a pistol brace, and a pistol buffer tube to which a stock cannot be attached (so not a rifle under the NY legal definition, and therefore not an assault weapon).
I hope they win just to piss NY off, but I wouldn't want to be a test case.
rockstarr
Major Deplorable
Sounds to me like what they refer to as “other” in Connecticut. There is a gun tuber I watch that is from there. It’s an oddball of a gun, that’s for sure.
Raineman
On the 3rd box
Where did "the list" come from and how did Suffolk County "legally" attain said list?
Matlack
Scribe
- Dec 15, 2008
- 8,557
ATF forms they are required to maintain throughout the entire time they are in operation and then sent to the ATF after they close. They have an entire warehouses of these forms.
Raineman
On the 3rd box
I know the procedure, but my question still stands. When did this particular gun shop close? Since when did Suffolk county have legal access to ATF records?
I believe the ATF (like most federal agencies) will cooperate with any legitimate police force conducting a criminal investigation.
Privacy laws usually have this exception.
Matlack
Scribe
- Dec 15, 2008
- 8,557
As likely when they were criminally charged, the police executed a search warrant on the premises of the FFL. At which time police seized the 4473s and copied them. Hence the letters.
To me the dickish part is it sounds likely the local police are asking ALL customers to present any guns they bought. To me that is ridiculous. I don’t take the point of view that any guns are illegal, but it would be one thing if the letter told the person “according to Jerry’s records you purchased X firearm on Y date. It is NY’s position that said firearm violated NY law. We are requesting you present said firearm to Suffolk police within 15 business days, blah, blah, blah”. Now maybe police are only targeting buyers of the specific firearm, but if so, why the vague date? Because they didn’t want to customize the letter? Well they could still say WHAT firearm it was. What if someone bought 10 guns from them during that time?
How would the public react if police sent a letter to every customer of a pharmacy that sold some drugs illegally, “we see you received prescriptions for X pharmacy between these dates. Present your drugs to use within 15 days or we will prosecute you”.
I’d contact police and tell them I have a hazy memory I did buy SOMETHING from them. But frankly I buy so many guns legally that they’ll need to tell me EXACTLY what they’d like me to present to them for inspection as it was awhile back. If they can’t tell me, “well sorry. You can ask for a search warrant and I’ll fully comply, but I am not bringing the entire contents of my gun safe to you so you can look through my guns”
To me the dickish part is it sounds likely the local police are asking ALL customers to present any guns they bought. To me that is ridiculous. I don’t take the point of view that any guns are illegal, but it would be one thing if the letter told the person “according to Jerry’s records you purchased X firearm on Y date. It is NY’s position that said firearm violated NY law. We are requesting you present said firearm to Suffolk police within 15 business days, blah, blah, blah”. Now maybe police are only targeting buyers of the specific firearm, but if so, why the vague date? Because they didn’t want to customize the letter? Well they could still say WHAT firearm it was. What if someone bought 10 guns from them during that time?
How would the public react if police sent a letter to every customer of a pharmacy that sold some drugs illegally, “we see you received prescriptions for X pharmacy between these dates. Present your drugs to use within 15 days or we will prosecute you”.
I’d contact police and tell them I have a hazy memory I did buy SOMETHING from them. But frankly I buy so many guns legally that they’ll need to tell me EXACTLY what they’d like me to present to them for inspection as it was awhile back. If they can’t tell me, “well sorry. You can ask for a search warrant and I’ll fully comply, but I am not bringing the entire contents of my gun safe to you so you can look through my guns”
Raineman
On the 3rd box
How can a Federal agency “cooperate” with something that isn’t Federal law?
What Federal judge approved a federal search warrant for a non federal investigation? Especially of a questionable state policy.
This stinks of tyranny. Apparently we don’t have to fight registration lists anymore, they are already in place and being used.
Where is Muleskinner? Maybe he has a plan.
What Federal judge approved a federal search warrant for a non federal investigation? Especially of a questionable state policy.
This stinks of tyranny. Apparently we don’t have to fight registration lists anymore, they are already in place and being used.
Where is Muleskinner? Maybe he has a plan.
Read my above, most likely police obtained a search warrant for the premises. The 4473 were either physical present at the FFL, or in their electronic records. No federal cooperation needed.
But, if you want to go that route, there is a federal nexus also as the FFL (if true and violated state law) is violating ATF regulations by selling firearms that violate state law. ATF regulations and the law are VERY clear that as an FFL you cannot transfer firearms to individuals who may not receive them. Under state law, the police believe the firearm involved violates state law, therefor the FFL transferring said firearm to anyone within the state of NY, violates state law and the action of transferring it also violates FEDERAL law. So the ATF has involvement. Like it or not.
I think it is all BS, but there isn't much connecting of dots needed, the ATF is involved because of the way federal law and ATF regulations are written, full stop. But in this instance, I don't think it was needed. Only if the FFL had already closed its doors and mailed all of their 4473 to the ATF would they need to be involved in any way.
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