When to Apply for MD Carry Permit

rseymorejr · Nov 14, 2021

Batt816 said:
So- without interviews and references, that should free up some personnel to verify and process permits.

FIFY

rambling_one · Nov 14, 2021

camo556 said:
More interesting to me is what happens to people who apply in March, April, May or June of next year.

Surely the State Police know this is coming. Which makes me wonder what they will do with those applications. Someone is going to jump the gun and think we already won, put SD on the app.

IIRC, they accepted and held applications pending the 4th Circuit ruling in the Woollard case.

Mark75H · Nov 14, 2021

I don't think there is anything to suggest MD law won't still require interviews and reference checks as intimidation and delay. If we get a favorable ruling all that changes is they can't require G&S. I seriously doubt a court ruling that goes any farther than specifically nullifying the G&S requirement, that is the question before the court, not whether a butthole deep background check is constitutionally allowed.

Gunjumpers that apply too soon will certainly be denied in April and May as they would be today.

camo556 · Nov 15, 2021

Cross posting because we have two threads going.

Been doing some looking into this. The nearest analogous example I can find is in 2013, when the MD GA was rushing to ban guns. Apparently there were a lot of purchases, so many that the MDSP could not do the 77r within a week. They got sued, and lost (see here https://www.nraila.org/articles/20140117/maryland-forced-to-clarify-firearm-transfer-rules), because the law clearly says 7 days. Dealers were allowed to release handguns even if the paperwork "not dissapproved" was not back. Looking back at some threads, apparently the wait was 180+ days for paperwork.

Put that in the context of MD CCW, where the law states they must approve within 90 days. If the MDSP drags their feet they run the major risk of the court saying, well now the law is shall issue, and MD law says 90 days, so anyone whose applied can carry even if their card is not returned. That would be the analogous situation to 2013 handgun lawsuit. They wont drag their feet because they are running the major risk of getting sued with the result being de facto constitutional carry. Its a very similar situation to 2013, except they dont have to rely of dealers to release guns ppl can just... carry.

AliasNeo07 · Nov 15, 2021

River02 said:
Will they increasingly go after magazine limits/restrictions and handgun types?

I mean, I don't know what else they can do on that front. Tell us we can only carry revolvers?

dblas · Nov 16, 2021

camo556 said:
Cross posting because we have two threads going.

Been doing some looking into this. The nearest analogous example I can find is in 2013, when the MD GA was rushing to ban guns. Apparently there were a lot of purchases, so many that the MDSP could not do the 77r within a week. They got sued, and lost (see here https://www.nraila.org/articles/20140117/maryland-forced-to-clarify-firearm-transfer-rules), because the law clearly says 7 days. Dealers were allowed to release handguns even if the paperwork "not dissapproved" was not back. Looking back at some threads, apparently the wait was 180+ days for paperwork.

Put that in the context of MD CCW, where the law states they must approve within 90 days. If the MDSP drags their feet they run the major risk of the court saying, well now the law is shall issue, and MD law says 90 days, so anyone whose applied can carry even if their card is not returned. That would be the analogous situation to 2013 handgun lawsuit. They wont drag their feet because they are running the major risk of getting sued with the result being de facto constitutional carry. Its a very similar situation to 2013, except they dont have to rely of dealers to release guns ppl can just... carry.

Not quite, State Statute actually has a challenge requirement if MSP misses the 90 day mark. It used to be the HPRB, but now it is a court case brought before an Administrative Law Judge.

I know several members here who are 2A lawyers, that I am sure I already researching the issue and how to brig the suit and win it.

press1280 · Nov 16, 2021

dblas said:
Not quite, State Statute actually has a challenge requirement if MSP misses the 90 day mark. It used to be the HPRB, but now it is a court case brought before an Administrative Law Judge.

I know several members here who are 2A lawyers, that I am sure I already researching the issue and how to brig the suit and win it.

Hopefully 90 days means just that and the MD courts uphold the law.

The NJ courts basically excused the local authorities years ago when they were regularly missing the statutory deadline, you know because its guns.

camo556 · Nov 16, 2021

dblas said:
Not quite, State Statute actually has a challenge requirement if MSP misses the 90 day mark. It used to be the HPRB, but now it is a court case brought before an Administrative Law Judge.

I know several members here who are 2A lawyers, that I am sure I already researching the issue and how to brig the suit and win it.

What does that even mean?

camo556 · Nov 16, 2021

dblas said:
Not quite, State Statute actually has a challenge requirement if MSP misses the 90 day mark. It used to be the HPRB, but now it is a court case brought before an Administrative Law Judge.

I know several members here who are 2A lawyers, that I am sure I already researching the issue and how to brig the suit and win it.

you are talking about this?

https://mgaleg.maryland.gov/mgawebs...section=5-312&enactments=False&archived=False

§5–312.

(a) (1) A person who is denied a permit or renewal of a permit or whose permit is revoked or limited may request to appeal the decision of the Secretary to the Office of Administrative Hearings by filing a written request with the Secretary and the Office of Administrative Hearings within 10 days after receipt of written notice of the Secretary’s final action.

(2) A person whose application for a permit or renewal of a permit is not acted on by the Secretary within 90 days after submitting the application to the Secretary may request a hearing before the Office of Administrative Hearings by filing a written request with the Secretary and the Office of Administrative Hearings.

(2) A person whose application for a permit or renewal of a permit is not acted on by the Secretary within 90 days after submitting the application to the Secretary may request a hearing before the Office of Administrative Hearings by filing a written request with the Secretary and the Office of Administrative Hearings.

(b) (1) Within 60 days after the receipt of a request under subsection (a) of this section from the applicant or the holder of the permit, the Office of Administrative Hearings shall schedule and conduct a de novo hearing on the matter, at which witness testimony and other evidence may be provided.

(2) Within 90 days after the conclusion of the last hearing on the matter, the Office of Administrative Hearings shall issue a finding of facts and a decision.

So you are saying applicants first have to clog up the DMs of some administrative judges?

I am not sure what that looks like under shall issue. Postpones the inevitable.

The only part I see that would delay permit issuance is this:

(6) based on an investigation:

(i) has not exhibited a propensity for violence or instability that may reasonably render the person’s possession of a handgun a danger to the person or to another; and

(ii) has good and substantial reason to wear, carry, or transport a handgun, such as a finding that the permit is necessary as a reasonable precaution against apprehended danger.

teratos · Nov 16, 2021

camo556 said:
you are talking about this?

https://mgaleg.maryland.gov/mgawebs...section=5-312&enactments=False&archived=False

So you are saying applicants first have to clog up the DMs of some administrative judges?

I am not sure what that looks like under shall issue. Postpones the inevitable.

The only part I see that would delay permit issuance is this:

The investigation includes phone interviews with all 3 of your references. You also meet with your investigator for about 30 minutes at a barracks (that isn’t always convenient for you).

camo556 · Nov 16, 2021

teratos said:
The investigation includes phone interviews with all 3 of your references. You also meet with your investigator for about 30 minutes at a barracks (that isn’t always convenient for you).

I simply don't see how they are going to accomplish that within 90 days, or even allowing for the appeal , whatever time that takes ( another few months).

maybe I'm being optimistic, I think demand will be high.

clandestine · Nov 16, 2021

It's obvious who has been through the MD Permit Process and who hasn't.

If G&S is found to be unconstitutional, there will still be an interview and required references to apply for a MD W&C Permit. Other shall issue States do this. States like RI require 3 reference letters and they all must be notarized.

Darkemp · Nov 16, 2021

clandestine said:
It's obvious who has been through the MD Permit Process and who hasn't.

If G&S is found to be unconstitutional, there will still be an interview and required references to apply for a MD W&C Permit. Other shall issue States do this. States like RI require 3 reference letters and they all must be notarized.

Interviews will be quicker if they continue to process via phone, not sure if that was just a temporary COVID protocol though or if they decided to go forward. I’m sure that saved time.

Mark75H · Nov 16, 2021

Mark392001 said:
Interviews will be quicker if they continue to process via phone, not sure if that was just a temporary COVID protocol though or if they decided to go forward. I’m sure that saved time.

Yes, that has been the experience of my students. One interviewer even let the student hand the phone to the spouse for the spouse interview/check.

bibitor · Nov 16, 2021

teratos said:
The investigation includes phone interviews with all 3 of your references. You also meet with your investigator for about 30 minutes at a barracks (that isn’t always convenient for you).

Just went through the whole process in September. Phone interview (no in-person) took about 10 minutes and they only called two of my references and spoke to them for less than a minute. It was exactly the same for my wife and two of our colleagues.

teratos · Nov 16, 2021

bibitor said:
Just went through the whole process in September. Phone interview (no in-person) took about 10 minutes and they only called two of my references and spoke to them for less than a minute. It was exactly the same for my wife and two of our colleagues.

Nice. My guys have always called everyone…

bibitor · Nov 16, 2021

teratos said:
Nice. My guys have always called everyone…

It’s still a ridiculous process, but I was expecting far worse based on the experience of other people over the last few years.

Biggfoot44 · Nov 17, 2021

Stand by for discussion of " Days " vs " Business Days " vs " Business Days since we started to actually process your application " in 3, 2, 1 ....

To recap from a couple posts above :

91 Days - if no ruling yet from MSP , first day to request OAH Hearing

60 Days - to have OAH Hearing held

90 Days after Hearing for OAH to give results

241 Days Total maximum in theory .

What is remedy if OAH takes more than 60 day to hold hearing , or more than 90 to decide ?

dblas · Nov 17, 2021

camo556 said:
you are talking about this?

https://mgaleg.maryland.gov/mgawebs...section=5-312&enactments=False&archived=False

Yep.

camo556 said:
So you are saying applicants first have to clog up the DMs of some administrative judges?

Blame the Legislature for getting rid of the HPRB, now it becomes an actual legal case with lawyers and such.

camo556 said:
I am not sure what that looks like under shall issue. Postpones the inevitable.

It looks like a right delayed, which is a right denied.

camo556 said:
The only part I see that would delay permit issuance is this:

Texasgrillchef · Nov 18, 2021

AliasNeo07 said:
I mean, I don't know what else they can do on that front. Tell us we can only carry revolvers?

There is a case pending cert, actually on “hold” just like Young v Hawaii for magazines.

I don’t believe SCOTUS would put either of these cases on “hold” if something wasn’t soon coming that would have some sort of impact on the case.

Young v Hawaii is kinda obvious. The magazine case isn’t. YET it’s on “hold” NOT denied like 6 other 2A related cases recently were.

So MD can think about a mag ban, or something else… but don’t think it will last long.

Oklahoma even with its constitutional carry banned the carry of any handgun OVER .45 cal. Which means your 50ae is not allowed.

When to Apply for MD Carry Permit

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

MD Wear&Carry Instructor

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Past President, MSI

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

My hair is amazing

Ultimate Member

AR-15 Savant

Ultimate Member

MD Wear&Carry Instructor

Kulak

My hair is amazing

Kulak

Ultimate Member

Past President, MSI

Active Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics