Biden does it again! State Dept. Bans Russian Guns and Ammo

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  • Growler215

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 30, 2020
    2,170
    SOMD
    I have a lot of 7.62x39 ammo socked away, but I also have 5 firearms in that caliber, so I'm not happy.

    And I recently built a nice 9x39 AR pistol. Still have a case of ammo for this put away, but I guess I won't be shooting it as much in the foreseeable future. Lehigh was going to start making 9x39 brass and ammo but I think the pandemic put those plans on the back burner. So no current source for 9x39. At least I have dies for it so it won't be a complete orphan...more like a red headed step child.

    I'm also wondering if this ban goes away if we manage to elect a Republican as president. The China munitions ban never did ...
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    I have a lot of 7.62x39 ammo socked away, but I also have 5 firearms in that caliber, so I'm not happy.

    And I recently built a nice 9x39 AR pistol. Still have a case of ammo for this put away, but I guess I won't be shooting it as much in the foreseeable future. Lehigh was going to start making 9x39 brass and ammo but I think the pandemic put those plans on the back burner. So no current source for 9x39. At least I have dies for it so it won't be a complete orphan...more like a red headed step child.

    I'm also wondering if this ban goes away if we manage to elect a Republican as president. The China munitions ban never did ...

    Only if Russia has more dirt on the next President than they did on Trump.
     

    Seagrave1963

    Still learnin'
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 6, 2011
    10,003
    Eastern Shore
    News flash communism is a form of government and capitalism is a type of economic system.

    You can have a capitalistic communist country. You can have an authoritarian capitalistic society. You can have a democratic socialist society. Or a democratic capitalistic society.

    The nazis were authoritarian capitalists (not a very traditional capitalist system, but the means of production were in private hands, not in government hands). The Chinese today are communist capitalists. They used to be communist socialists. The soviets had been communist socialists. Today they are kleptocratic capitalists.

    The US is borderline authoritarian capitalistic system, been changing from a Democratic capitalist system.

    Sweden is a Democratic socialist system.

    That said all of them have different extremes. One is not 100% one or the other. For example, even is Soviet Russia, private businesses existed even if it was mostly just small ones. In the US some functions are run by the government such as some segments of health care, part of the postal system, etc.

    A true unlimited capitalist society would have no functions operated by the government. Police would all be private, no government built roads, etc. obviously no society is really THAT far to capitalistic. In a true unlimited socialist society no private business would exist. Not even independent fruit vendors on the street or farmers.

    No society is 100% anything.



    Agreed - my comment was a watered down view of how things have been shifting over time.
     

    Harrys

    Short Round
    Jul 12, 2014
    3,362
    SOMD
    I never understood this logic, because we all have Chinese products in our houses and in our possessions and 9 times out of 10 the cell phone we use comes from China, the US makes billions of dollars per year dealing with Communist China, and it’s OK for them to deal with commies when it’s in their interest. We’ve done nearly $100 billion with Vietnam last year alone, a communist country we went to war with and we literally bought and set a record in March for over 23 million barrels of crude imported from Russia, the most since 2010 I’m quite sure a lot people aren’t aware how much oil we are currently buying from mother Russia.

    So again me purchasing Russian ammo a case here and there, don’t think I shed a tear or feel unpatriotic one bit, that’s how capitalism work everybody does what’s best for their pockets including all Democratic governments.

    Two wrongs do not make a right, just because companies, and our government deals with the commies does not mean we need to. It is all about choices, if we as individuals do not buy a particular product the manufacturers will not carry it. I choose to buy Made In USA first, there are plenty of electronics that are not made by the commies and I choose to buy them. I have stood by my convictions not to by commie products and will do with out before I buy them. If more of us did that maybe thing will be made back in the USA. I will pay more for a USA product to support our workers rather than making excuses for bad judgment.
     

    JTH20

    Active Member
    Feb 18, 2013
    536
    MD
    Two wrongs do not make a right, just because companies, and our government deals with the commies does not mean we need to. It is all about choices, if we as individuals do not buy a particular product the manufacturers will not carry it. I choose to buy Made In USA first, there are plenty of electronics that are not made by the commies and I choose to buy them. I have stood by my convictions not to by commie products and will do with out before I buy them. If more of us did that maybe thing will be made back in the USA. I will pay more for a USA product to support our workers rather than making excuses for bad judgment.

    But our choice was taken away...
     

    bibitor

    Kulak
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 10, 2017
    1,894
    FEMA Region III
    Two wrongs do not make a right, just because companies, and our government deals with the commies does not mean we need to. It is all about choices, if we as individuals do not buy a particular product the manufacturers will not carry it. I choose to buy Made In USA first, there are plenty of electronics that are not made by the commies and I choose to buy them. I have stood by my convictions not to by commie products and will do with out before I buy them. If more of us did that maybe thing will be made back in the USA. I will pay more for a USA product to support our workers rather than making excuses for bad judgment.

    No, there aren’t.

    Made in America really means assembled in America. We make nothing here.

    I hope this changes in the future but for now you’re just being a virtue signaling hypocrit.
     

    dieselfarmboy

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 5, 2009
    3,005
    Snow Hill, MD
    Silly question to all the ohhhhhh we can make it here crowd. Do we even have the natural resources to make it here? Do we have the factories to produce the components? Or in the end would we still have to buy materials from them, and then produce it here? Yes id love for stuff to be produced here as long as its semi reasonable but I fear our infrastructure, raw material production is never going to allow that. Also there is that whole trying to get people to work thing.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Silly question to all the ohhhhhh we can make it here crowd. Do we even have the natural resources to make it here? Do we have the factories to produce the components? Or in the end would we still have to buy materials from them, and then produce it here? Yes id love for stuff to be produced here as long as its semi reasonable but I fear our infrastructure, raw material production is never going to allow that. Also there is that whole trying to get people to work thing.
    We already make it here. Hornady makes brass-cased 5.45x39. Plenty of manufacturers make brass-cased 7.62x39. The problem is that cheap Russian imports never made the math work for mass-production at a 30cpr target price. With those gone, the math is a little different.

    Also, there's at least Romanian 7.62x39 steel-case still being imported.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    Two wrongs do not make a right, just because companies, and our government deals with the commies does not mean we need to. It is all about choices, if we as individuals do not buy a particular product the manufacturers will not carry it. I choose to buy Made In USA first, there are plenty of electronics that are not made by the commies and I choose to buy them. I have stood by my convictions not to by commie products and will do with out before I buy them. If more of us did that maybe thing will be made back in the USA. I will pay more for a USA product to support our workers rather than making excuses for bad judgment.
    I believe that you believe this to be true and can even recall many specific instances of doing so, but I doubt that it actually is true a majority of the time.

    I always try to buy made in the USA stuff too. And mostly fail. Or find out later that made in the USA doesn’t mean what it used to.
     

    Benny

    Active Member
    Feb 20, 2019
    185
    Agreed. People are happy to put on a big show about it but as soon as they have to endure even the tiniest minor inconvenience (paying slightly more for American made ammo), they show that they have no true conviction. Imagine if these hypocrites actually had to deal with any real hardship. Laughable!!

    -big Wang


    Russians are evil but the Chinese are no better. No one is proposing a ban on Chinese manufactured consumer goods. This isn’t about punishing Russia. A firearm is a club without ammo.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    dieselfarmboy

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 5, 2009
    3,005
    Snow Hill, MD
    We already make it here. Hornady makes brass-cased 5.45x39. Plenty of manufacturers make brass-cased 7.62x39. The problem is that cheap Russian imports never made the math work for mass-production at a 30cpr target price. With those gone, the math is a little different.

    Also, there's at least Romanian 7.62x39 steel-case still being imported.

    Didnt answer really any of it. I know we make some of it. But could we produce the steel casings domestically? Would we have enough lead supply? What about copper and brass?
     

    Allen65

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 29, 2013
    7,063
    Anne Arundel County
    No society is 100% anything.

    You're trying to use subtlety, nuance, and complexity in a political discussion. That doesn't work too well with a modern audience that thrives on absolutes. Don't you know everything needs to be 0 or 1, Good or Evil, Our Side or the Enemy?

    You might as well be explaining things using logic and math. :innocent0
     

    smokey

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    31,412
    News flash communism is a form of government and capitalism is a type of economic system.

    You can have a capitalistic communist country. You can have an authoritarian capitalistic society. You can have a democratic socialist society. Or a democratic capitalistic society.

    The nazis were authoritarian capitalists (not a very traditional capitalist system, but the means of production were in private hands, not in government hands). The Chinese today are communist capitalists. They used to be communist socialists. The soviets had been communist socialists. Today they are kleptocratic capitalists.

    The US is borderline authoritarian capitalistic system, been changing from a Democratic capitalist system.

    Sweden is a Democratic socialist system.

    That said all of them have different extremes. One is not 100% one or the other. For example, even is Soviet Russia, private businesses existed even if it was mostly just small ones. In the US some functions are run by the government such as some segments of health care, part of the postal system, etc.

    A true unlimited capitalist society would have no functions operated by the government. Police would all be private, no government built roads, etc. obviously no society is really THAT far to capitalistic. In a true unlimited socialist society no private business would exist. Not even independent fruit vendors on the street or farmers.

    No society is 100% anything.

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/communism
     

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    Buster Brown

    Active Member
    Aug 11, 2019
    311
    Southern MD
    I think we'll end up seeing some 5.45x39 ammo coming from Romania. I remember century used to import it and sell it under their "Hot Shot" brand. I think Romania still uses 5.45 in service.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Didnt answer really any of it. I know we make some of it. But could we produce the steel casings domestically?
    Yes, the US is capable of reproducing 100+ year old technology. If you'll recall, CCI does produce aluminum cased pistol ammo, for example. The real problem is that the Russians had their manufacturing lines bought and paid for from the Soviet days, which means they don't have to include initial capital costs in the cost of their ammo. A US producer that wanted to try to compete and produce steel cases would have to include their capital costs in the pricing (at least if they didn't want to go out of business), and that would probably make them non-viable. I think it would be fascinating to see someone try, since the numbers are not necessarily terrible in the brass vs steel matchup. Even just maybe ramping up Romanian, Polish, Bulgarian, etc. steel case production might be enough to relieve some initial strain.

    Would we have enough lead supply?
    We import basically all of our lead, so that's a hard one to answer. Presumably yes.

    What about copper and brass?
    Copper and brass are commodities sold on the world market. They are obtainable. The price may fluctuate depending on how the Russians scale back their manufacturing.

    You should be asking about primers. Primers are probably the toughest thing to scale now that there are some tariff issues with imports.
     

    dieselfarmboy

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 5, 2009
    3,005
    Snow Hill, MD
    I honestly dont see any American company expanding production under the current administration. The minute they was getting ready to flip the switch they would find a way to shut them down.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    Current US ammunition production capacity is already maxed , and concentrating on popular cals .

    The imeadate windfall will be for Serbia , Czech , Rurkey , Philippines , etc to step up 7.62x 39 in particular .

    Steel cased ammo wasn't a virtue in itself , it was a means to cheap ammo .
     

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