Biden does it again! State Dept. Bans Russian Guns and Ammo

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  • jjones88

    Active Member
    Apr 4, 2013
    568
    Sykesville
    I honestly dont see any American company expanding production under the current administration. The minute they was getting ready to flip the switch they would find a way to shut them down.

    It's nice to think that the "current administration" would be the limiting factor but in the game of capitalism that is definitely not true.

    The limiting factor is the fact that the companies don't want to spend precious capital on something with a almost guaranteed fallout at the end.

    The highs and lows of the price of ammo have been happening for a long time now, and if it weren't for COVID trashing shipping, prices wouldn't be lower but the supply would be higher.

    The companies won't expand because land is at an all time high, steel is at a high, other precious metals are at a high. Why buy at a high when there is a strong potential to take a huge loss? That means they raise their prices to cover the capital spent to expand a product line that in the end isn't even that profitable?

    If the companies were to expand, they would go for .22lr, 9x19, and .223/5.56. Those are the calibers of the now and of the future.

    Current administration isn't affecting the company exec's decision. The rest of the market is.
     

    jjones88

    Active Member
    Apr 4, 2013
    568
    Sykesville
    I should add, this "ban" is pretty devastating to me... I am 1/2 team AK at the AGC 3-gun, have most of my firearms running the steel case products of Wolf and Barnaul. This year alone have expanded my Eastern Bloc caliber shooters substantially to offset the inability to obtain 9x19 and .223 without selling a liver.

    Now I stare at a wall of super fun guns and a future dwindling of ammo.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    I should add, this "ban" is pretty devastating to me... I am 1/2 team AK at the AGC 3-gun, have most of my firearms running the steel case products of Wolf and Barnaul. This year alone have expanded my Eastern Bloc caliber shooters substantially to offset the inability to obtain 9x19 and .223 without selling a liver.

    Now I stare at a wall of super fun guns and a future dwindling of ammo.
    I feel you. I've got an M10-545, AMD-65 SBR (built off a TGI SA-2000M), Sig 556R, and a pre-ban SKS-M in the safe. I've got some capacity and materials to reload 7.62x39, but every pull of the trigger is like 60 cents, minimum. Just not worthwhile for an action shooting event, especially when I can reload 5.56 and 9mm cheap. That said, the Romanians are still in the game, so I do think "cheaper" steel-cased 7.62x39 will return.

    But the AK class I'm taking this Sunday? I'm using my pre-ban Galil. Can't justify shooting 5.45 anymore, and my ability to restock 7.62x39 just cratered.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    I should add, this "ban" is pretty devastating to me... I am 1/2 team AK at the AGC 3-gun, have most of my firearms running the steel case products of Wolf and Barnaul. This year alone have expanded my Eastern Bloc caliber shooters substantially to offset the inability to obtain 9x19 and .223 without selling a liver.

    Now I stare at a wall of super fun guns and a future dwindling of ammo.

    It does turn my Sks in to “take it out and shoot it occasionally”. I didn’t exactly shoot it gobs before. But now it’s more of take it to the range a shoot a couple boxes of ammo. Not sit there and shoot 200 rounds in a session. Because hey, the ammo’s 20cpr.

    It does make me decided to not pursue anything else in 7.62x39 and super glad I didn’t get something in 5.45. I’d still kind of like an AK in 6.5 Grendel. But meh.

    I can reload for 7.62x39, but until someone makes cheap components…about the cheapest I can reload for it is around 50-60cpr with what I can track down. If prices come back to sanity I could probably reload for around 30cpr. Which is okay, but not great.
     

    jjones88

    Active Member
    Apr 4, 2013
    568
    Sykesville
    Difference is:
    between the past "waves", Prices dropped down to the sand,
    Between the current waves there is little drop.

    I don’t disagree, but the data set is only closing in on 18 months?

    2013 it was a solid 2 years before things rebalanced and we hit a huge low in a lot of areas.

    The difference this time isn’t political with respect to firearms as much as it’s just obtaining raw materials and distribution. Add in the stereotypical scalping on top of it, that’s rough.

    But everything follows a supply vs demand curve. As long as supply is low and demand is high prices are high. Just like in 2015 when all the people sold out of the guns they bought in a scare, the market flooded and prices tanked.

    That’s a separate discussion of the x39 and x54r supply hit that just happened. Unless Romania somehow has the capacity reserve to pick up where Tula is going to drop off - supply is about to tank a massive plunge while the AK demand is at a high within the US.
     

    JohnnyE

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 18, 2013
    9,462
    MoCo
    I feel you. I've got an M10-545, AMD-65 SBR (built off a TGI SA-2000M), Sig 556R, and a pre-ban SKS-M in the safe. I've got some capacity and materials to reload 7.62x39, but every pull of the trigger is like 60 cents, minimum. Just not worthwhile for an action shooting event, especially when I can reload 5.56 and 9mm cheap. That said, the Romanians are still in the game, so I do think "cheaper" steel-cased 7.62x39 will return.

    But the AK class I'm taking this Sunday? I'm using my pre-ban Galil. Can't justify shooting 5.45 anymore, and my ability to restock 7.62x39 just cratered.

    It does turn my Sks in to “take it out and shoot it occasionally”. I didn’t exactly shoot it gobs before. But now it’s more of take it to the range a shoot a couple boxes of ammo. Not sit there and shoot 200 rounds in a session. Because hey, the ammo’s 20cpr.

    It does make me decided to not pursue anything else in 7.62x39 and super glad I didn’t get something in 5.45. I’d still kind of like an AK in 6.5 Grendel. But meh.

    I can reload for 7.62x39, but until someone makes cheap components…about the cheapest I can reload for it is around 50-60cpr with what I can track down. If prices come back to sanity I could probably reload for around 30cpr. Which is okay, but not great.
    It appears we're in the same boat.

    My 7.62 Arsenal AK shoots Golden Tiger FMJBT great, and I got a nice stash at 18 CPR. I'll be damned if I'm going to pay two or three time that for brass (and that's when prices "normalize) because the guns shoot GT the best.

    I am sure the Russian ammo makers will find a way to "relocate" production to other countries...:fingerscrossed:
     

    Jim12

    Let Freedom Ring
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 30, 2013
    33,860
    Here's a national security/economics perspective on Biden's ban:

    By banning Russian arms and ammo sales to the U.S., the Biden Admin. exacerbates a potentially dangerous international situation between Russia and its neighbors.

    Putin needs markets for those arms and ammo manufacturers. We provide exchange currency and also help temper his war-making capability. Without us, the most obvious use for the excess is his own military, which will better prepare -- and maybe even facilitate its invasion of more of his neighbors.

    If Putin gets aggressive, we can blame Biden for stirring up Putin's designs on them.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Nah, the Russian military always had first access to ammo, just like ours does. It is really hard to deny that ammo exports provided Russia a pretty steady stream of foreign currency. Whether this was really a sanction designed to target them or us may be in dispute, but this isn't going to benefit the Russians, either.
     

    Brickman301

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 23, 2015
    2,530
    FREDERICK, MD
    Like others on here, I shoot a lot of “commie ammo”.
    I also shot a lot of steel cased 9mm. It’s cheap, and I’ve never run into any issues with it.
    I’m pretty stocked up, but I always want more ammo. Lol.

    I’m really concerned about 9x18 Mak ammo. Just a few days before this ban was announced, I was looking at picking up a CZ-82. I’m glad I didn’t now.
     

    JTH20

    Active Member
    Feb 18, 2013
    536
    MD
    Like others on here, I shoot a lot of “commie ammo”.
    I also shot a lot of steel cased 9mm. It’s cheap, and I’ve never run into any issues with it.
    I’m pretty stocked up, but I always want more ammo. Lol.

    I’m really concerned about 9x18 Mak ammo. Just a few days before this ban was announced, I was looking at picking up a CZ-82. I’m glad I didn’t now.

    Polish 9x18 Mak ammo used to be everywhere, i remember i paid something stupid like 10 cents a round when Aim blew it out. Brass cased and sealed primers, awesome stuff.

    I wonder if Century will start bringing it in again.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Does steel ammo cause more than normal wear on uppers and BCG? Asking since most of the Russian ammo is steel.
    Not really. There have been allegations that it's rougher on extractors, but that's about it, and the extractor thing is mostly conjecture, not proven. The real knock against Russian ammo is the bimetal jackets, which cause accelerated barrel wear.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,880
    In theory the harder steel rims would some degree accelerate extractor wear . But as erows points out that between the bimetal jackets and the powders , bore erosion is the big problem .
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    Like others on here, I shoot a lot of “commie ammo”.
    I also shot a lot of steel cased 9mm. It’s cheap, and I’ve never run into any issues with it.
    I’m pretty stocked up, but I always want more ammo. Lol.

    I’m really concerned about 9x18 Mak ammo. Just a few days before this ban was announced, I was looking at picking up a CZ-82. I’m glad I didn’t now.

    Why? MAK is really easy to reload and components for it fairly cheap. It’ll inflate prices, but in a sane world Geco 9x18 isn’t that expensive. It was running about $9 a box when 9x18 was around $8 a box. Now with steel 9x18 drying up it’ll probably inflate 9x18 steel a lot…but that’s going to happen with any ammo where Russian imports were a sizable amount of the market.

    It will likely seriously drive up demand from the Ukraine and Romania (and anyone else commercially producing steel cased ammo. Hell…ammo period). In some ways it might leave the market better in the very long run by increasing demand for more reliable partners and allowing companies to invest in Capex knowing it’s unlikely Russia is getting back in to the US market anytime soon.

    Definitely a kick in the balls in the short term (next couple of years).
     

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