W&C or selling a service

BenSpelledABC · Oct 13, 2020

There was a change recently, 9/16/2020, that prevents the disclosure of security clearance level as a G&S reason for W&C permits. Calling it a 'personal gain' and therefore not allowed.

I reached out to a training company and they were unhelpful other than in so many words saying that they are well aware of the stance/position. Mind you, they wouldn't disclose how they are going to help their clients get the information to the MDSP that's now considered a personal gain and therefore against policy to provide. But they were sure ready to sell me a training!

I'm beginning to question the goals/objectives of some of these training companies. Sure it's a business but they don't seem very 2a friendly unless it puts $ in their pocket.

The catch is, if you buy the service.. you cant provide the documentation that's required or you're in violation of a policy. If you don't provide it, you don't get the permit as it's a required document.

I had referred several people to their company over the last 2 years. I'm now regretting having done that. They are clearly in it for the wrong reasons by my book.

There's NO WAY they could know if a permit was approved or not from a policy position change in 30 days as the permit itself takes longer to get. They are blowing smoke up my ass and not even calling it a kiss.

Blaster229 · Oct 13, 2020

Sounds like Fortress Training.

BenSpelledABC · Oct 13, 2020

Blaster229 said:
Sounds like Fortress Training.

I can neither confirm, nor deny that at this time.

The approval time takes longer than this change has been out. There's no way they would know of the policy change and how it relates to the permit issuance/denial with the new policy change yet. It will be another month or two yet to know. Yet this company claims to know.

Ranchero50 · Oct 13, 2020

The gun shop based one very local to me are saying the same thing on their radio ads. Selling to women in particular. They don't bother to mention that you have a damned slight chance of actually getting a permit with or without their training but the parking lot is full on training days... :rolleyes:

Steel Hunter · Oct 13, 2020

BenSpelledABC said:
There was a change recently, 9/16/2020, that prevents the disclosure of security clearance level as a G&S reason for W&C permits. Calling it a 'personal gain' and therefore not allowed.

This doesn't apply to me anyways, but that sounds like such a load of BS. Because someone works for the government defending your own life is now considered a "personal gain" you get as a result of your position? Screw that.

BenSpelledABC · Oct 13, 2020

Steel Hunter said:
This doesn't apply to me anyways, but that sounds like such a load of BS. Because someone works for the government defending your own life is now considered a "personal gain" you get as a result of your position? Screw that.

The kick in the nuts here is that this same info is whats used for obtaining a bank at tower federal... which.. is more of a personal gain. Dont get me started haha.

Blaster229 · Oct 13, 2020

BenSpelledABC said:
The kick in the nuts here is that this same info is whats used for obtaining a bank at tower federal... which.. is more of a personal gain. Dont get me started haha.

No one with a TS has their life in danger. No one with a TS from work is going to be kidnapped. Anyone could be followed and kidnapped long ago simply leaving the big glass building. It wouldn't have taken a security breach.
Most with a TS or higher is in more danger of being exploited, than having a violent incident. The real people in danger are already legally carrying from work.

I think initially MSP fell in love with the allure of the Sirens song being played for them, until they found out there really isn't one.

BenSpelledABC · Oct 13, 2020

Blaster229 said:
No one with a TS has their life in danger. No one with a TS from work is going to be kidnapped. Anyone could be followed and kidnapped long ago simply leaving the big glass building. It wouldn't have taken a security breach.
Most with a TS or higher is in more danger of being exploited, than having a violent incident. The real people in danger are already legally carrying from work.

I think initially MSP fell in love with the allure of the Sirens song being played for them, until they found out there really isn't one.

The requirement was that G&S must have a risk higher than the average citizen.

TS, fits that category. If you say it can’t, I’m guessing you’re not paying attention or are not in a position to confirm/deny it.

We all have opinions though. Thanks for sharing yours.

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Blaster229 · Oct 13, 2020

BenSpelledABC said:
The requirement was that G&S must have a risk higher than the average citizen.

TS, fits that category. If you say it can’t, I’m guessing you’re not paying attention or are not in a position to confirm/deny it.

We all have opinions though. Thanks for sharing yours.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Have you ever stayed in a hotel with no room service and have someone knock on your door saying it's room service? I have
Have you ever been followed overseas? I have
Have you ever had someone go to a neighbor's house and ask if you still worked for the FAA? I have

I know a little about threats.
I've also worked in a SCIF. I drove home from one everyday.
I don't see the danger. Give me an example.

BenSpelledABC · Oct 13, 2020

Blaster229 said:
Have you ever stayed in a hotel with no room service and have someone knock on your door saying it's room service? I have
Have you ever been followed overseas? I have
Have you ever had someone go to a neighbor's house and ask if you still worked for the FAA? I have

I know a little about threats.
I've also worked in a SCIF. I drove home from one everyday.
I don't see the danger. Give me an example.

You’re right. You’re not worth my time.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Blaster229 · Oct 13, 2020

BenSpelledABC said:
You’re right. You’re not worth my time.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So what you're saying is you don't have any examples of high risk?

Tungsten · Oct 13, 2020

So is this a new MSP policy of no longer accepting a clearance as G&S? Is it an employer no longer giving out clearance acknowledgements?

BenSpelledABC · Oct 14, 2020

Tungsten said:
So is this a new MSP policy of no longer accepting a clearance as G&S? Is it an employer no longer giving out clearance acknowledgements?

The latter under “new guidance”. MDSP requires it, employer not able to provide it under new guidance.

That being said, there is some question of the validity of the notice as it doesn’t seam to have gone thru proper channels for formal notification. This makes it seam like a covert anti 2a agenda.

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welder516 · Oct 14, 2020

That friendship did not last long ... :innocent0

BenSpelledABC · Oct 14, 2020

welder516 said:
That friendship did not last long ...

Well, it’s still an option for some because of a verification of employment letter. It just doesn’t apply to contractors or good men/women in the military.

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welder516 · Oct 14, 2020

BenSpelledABC said:
Well, it’s still an option for some because of a verification of employment letter. It just doesn’t apply to contractors or good men/women in the military.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The entire permit system is a huge PIA and a scheme . Everyone that wants to carry should be able to do so .
The only persons responsible for such a scheme is the A-Holes we are electing , we all settle and we all accept .
Plus their is not one elected official that i am aware of that is rabid about CC all of them tippy toe around the issue and try to get along with the other ass-holes that think abortion is not killing .

Gun violence is not okay but Abortion violence is okay . or at least acceptable

It is not the training programs fault if rules change unless they are lying that you still can get a permit under the old rules

135sohc · Oct 14, 2020

BenSpelledABC said:
This makes it seam like a covert anti 2a agenda.

From fat man himself down to the LEOSA qualified nobody this entire state is about as anti as it gets if you have not picked up on that yet.

Rab1515 · Oct 14, 2020

If you read carefully, the guidance only applies to contractors, not federal employees.

Collector98 · Oct 14, 2020

Do you guys have a source for this info? I haven't seen or heard anything about it until now. And just to verify, if someone already has a letter from their work, but hasn't applied yet, it should still be possible to obtain the W&C permit, correct?

Doctor_M · Oct 14, 2020

I know that I have been tailed and had my hotel room swept more than once, but that was OCONUS. In the US, I would agree that the actual increase in personal threat is pretty minimal, mostly because if you are abiding by guidelines, you aren't talking about your clearance level anyway. It's not like you are walking down the street with your courier credentials hanging around your neck... I hope.

That being said... G&S is stupid and needs to be abolished.

W&C or selling a service

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