Round Ball Size

kmittleman · Aug 30, 2020

Hi All,

I’m considering getting a Hawken for MD’s primitive deer season. I see that round balls come in different sizes. Is it just trial and error? My plan would be to use .15 lubricated patches and a Hornady .490 round ball. However I have no idea if this would be good. Any thoughts?

Thanks!

K

Pale Ryder · Aug 30, 2020

.490 or .495 with a .010 or .015 lubed patch sounds right. I’m more familiar with the .54 but usually best accuracy will come from a charge that is well under max. My .54 is best with a 90 grain powder charge with a .530 ball and .010 patch.

You can use the rifle before primitive season. I’m unretiring my .54 this year just for the heck of it. May take the in-line a few times, but taking the Hawken more. Have fun.

tallen702 · Aug 30, 2020

I'm assuming .50 cal? If so. .490 round ball with a .015 lubricated patch should do the trick. Bold is because you stated .15 in your OP. A lot of round-ball guys like the TC .015 pillow ticking patches.

If you're not getting the accuracy you want, then it's worth trying .495. Just make sure that and un-patched ball can free-fall without hanging up or being scored by the lands, otherwise you're too tight. The retrieved patch should also be free of any signs of rifling cutting into it.

Biggfoot44 · Aug 31, 2020

I thought I'd replied earlier, but guess I didn't click post , as I was about to run out the door .

Yeah , what they said .

As side note , yes , the modern inline guys think 150gr- ish aka 3 pellets is normal . But for round ball , indeed 80-100gr is typical ( with best accuracy being deciding factor ).

My most recent " to me " is a .54 . I'd always been intrested in trying a .54 , as that seems optimal for Round Ball , for power and trajectory ( in the old school context ) .

K31 · Aug 31, 2020

kmittleman said:
Hi All,

I’m considering getting a Hawken for MD’s primitive deer season. I see that round balls come in different sizes. Is it just trial and error? My plan would be to use .15 lubricated patches and a Hornady .490 round ball. However I have no idea if this would be good. Any thoughts?

Thanks!

K

What make of Hawken? Several manufacturers made/make repos and in many different calibers.

TheRealJimDavis · Aug 31, 2020

Not what you asked, but.... I have two Hawkins. One for me and one my son. Both really do much better with Cva power belt bullets. And they are easier to use than patched roundball. 348 grain. Not what you asked, but my experience.

Mike OTDP · Aug 31, 2020

There's a bit of experimentation required. However, a good rule of thumb is to measure the land diameter. The bullet diameter plus one thickness of patch should match that. Then experiment from there.

kmittleman · Sep 2, 2020

Mike OTDP said:
There's a bit of experimentation required. However, a good rule of thumb is to measure the land diameter. The bullet diameter plus one thickness of patch should match that. Then experiment from there.

Oh ok - so basically say the caliber is: .50. Next the ball is .490. And finally the patch should be .010. So .490 + .010 = .50?

K

kmittleman · Sep 2, 2020

K31 said:
What make of Hawken? Several manufacturers made/make repos and in many different calibers.

I was looking at the Traditions Woodsman. I like that one because it has the adjustable rear sight.

Mike OTDP · Sep 2, 2020

kmittleman said:
Oh ok - so basically say the caliber is: .50. Next the ball is .490. And finally the patch should be .010. So .490 + .010 = .50?

K

Yes. Though all guns are different, that's a good starting point.

Horseman308 · Sep 2, 2020

kmittleman said:
Oh ok - so basically say the caliber is: .50. Next the ball is .490. And finally the patch should be .010. So .490 + .010 = .50?

K

In general, you'll find that a pure lead round ball will want to conform to the rifling a little. So I've used a .490 ball, or sometimes a .495, and a .015" patch for years. The extra thickness helps the rifling grab the ball better. For hunting that's about all you're likely to need. You're trying to balance accuracy with ease of loading in the field. I like 3f powder (real black powder, especially in flintlocks), because it burns a little hotter. But every rifle will have its own preferences.

For serious target shooting, a lot of guys will use the tightest combo they can, with up to .022" patches, but they need a hammer and steel rod to load it.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

John from MD · Sep 2, 2020

If you have a commercially made Hawken, you probably have a 1 in 48 twist which is a compromise between the best twists for roundball and conicals. Most of these also have shallow rifling which, will allow you to use a conical. Round balls are about 188 grains and conicals go from 250 to 420. My Hawken rifles will shoot round balls good enough for hunting up to about 80 grains of powder and then groups will open up. For conicals, 80 grains is a starting load. My guns shoot 350 grain conicals best at 100 to 110 grains of Pryrodex RS.

I wouldn't use sabots in a 1 in 48 twist as they won't always stabilize.

Here is a place to buy lead balls and conicals. https://www.trackofthewolf.com

kmittleman · Sep 2, 2020

Do you all have any opinions on the various Hawkens out there? I was going between the Lyman Deerslayer and the Traditions Woodsman.

John from MD · Sep 2, 2020

Lyman rifles are made by Investarms who also made them for early Thompson Center, Cabelas etc. They are the best you are going to get unless you want to start spending Pedersoli type bucks. Don't waste money on the Spanish made that Traditions sells, they use soft steel and their quality control is spotty.

The one thing that you will have to do with a Lyman, if you shoot patched ball, is to double patch for about the first hundred rounds. Their rifling is very sharp and will tear patches until it is dulled. If you are handy, like machinist level, you can make a lap and lap it.

Midsouth has about the best prices on Lyman rifles. Unless you really want a new one, they hold up really well if cleaned and I have found used ones at half price both here and Gunbroker.

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply..../deerstalker-50-caliber-right-hand-percussion

This one on Gunbroker is in excellent shape including the barrel crown. It even has a Lyman sight which is almost $100 itself. I would keep an eye on it if I were you.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/877973974

Horseman308 · Sep 3, 2020

kmittleman said:
Do you all have any opinions on the various Hawkens out there? I was going between the Lyman Deerslayer and the Traditions Woodsman.

I would be very happy with a Lyman, and I would avoid the Traditions unless I had no other choice.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Doco Overboard · Sep 3, 2020

John from MD said:
Lyman rifles are made by Investarms who also made them for early Thompson Center, Cabelas etc. They are the best you are going to get unless you want to start spending Pedersoli type bucks. Don't waste money on the Spanish made that Traditions sells, they use soft steel and their quality control is spotty.

The one thing that you will have to do with a Lyman, if you shoot patched ball, is to double patch for about the first hundred rounds. Their rifling is very sharp and will tear patches until it is dulled. If you are handy, like machinist level, you can make a lap and lap it.

Midsouth has about the best prices on Lyman rifles. Unless you really want a new one, they hold up really well if cleaned and I have found used ones at half price both here and Gunbroker.

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply..../deerstalker-50-caliber-right-hand-percussion

This one on Gunbroker is in excellent shape including the barrel crown. It even has a Lyman sight which is almost $100 itself. I would keep an eye on it if I were you.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/877973974

I never knew Investarms made Hawken or any other rifles for T/C.
If they, did I never seen one.
I was under the impression that the store brand and Lymans were cheaper knock off's.

kmittleman · Sep 3, 2020

John from MD said:
Lyman rifles are made by Investarms who also made them for early Thompson Center, Cabelas etc. They are the best you are going to get unless you want to start spending Pedersoli type bucks. Don't waste money on the Spanish made that Traditions sells, they use soft steel and their quality control is spotty.

The one thing that you will have to do with a Lyman, if you shoot patched ball, is to double patch for about the first hundred rounds. Their rifling is very sharp and will tear patches until it is dulled. If you are handy, like machinist level, you can make a lap and lap it.

Midsouth has about the best prices on Lyman rifles. Unless you really want a new one, they hold up really well if cleaned and I have found used ones at half price both here and Gunbroker.

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply..../deerstalker-50-caliber-right-hand-percussion

This one on Gunbroker is in excellent shape including the barrel crown. It even has a Lyman sight which is almost $100 itself. I would keep an eye on it if I were you.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/877973974

Cool! Thanks so much for the feedback - keep ‘em coming!

John from MD · Sep 3, 2020

Doco Overboard said:
I never knew Investarms made Hawken or any other rifles for T/C.
If they, did I never seen one.
I was under the impression that the store brand and Lymans were cheaper knock off's.

When TC was tooling up in the '70's, Investarms was making them to TC's specs. Two ways to tell them apart was the rear sight and the rifling. TC rifling was spec's for their conicals and thus was not as deep as the Investarms.

They actually do a nice job with the Lyman line. Except for the damn sharp rifling.

Doco Overboard · Sep 3, 2020

John from MD said:
When TC was tooling up in the '70's, Investarms was making them to TC's specs. Two ways to tell them apart was the rear sight and the rifling. TC rifling was spec's for their conicals and thus was not as deep as the Investarms.

They actually do a nice job with the Lyman line. Except for the damn sharp rifling.

The early side-lock rifles I own are button rifled and have the clean out screw in the snail.
Also they were drilled and tapped at the tang for vernier or peep sights that T/C marketed.

The only Lyman rifle I owned was a flinter in .50 and had cut rifling.
The lock had the same floral pattern and coil mainspring but lacked the case hardening evident on a T/c. it was fastened to the lock mortise with one screw and an escutcheon just like the T/c.
Double set mechanism was in no way shape or form as finely manufactured as a T/c but real close.
It was a nice rifle but always preferred the T/c's for hunting because for me they were just a tad more but not by much a well crafted rifle.
I wound up giving the rifle and all the kit to an Amish kid who likes to kill deer.

For the "traditional" season this year Ill break out a customized New Englander that has been upgraded with Hawken furniture, double sets patch box and all that jazz.

I was just thinking I owned a number of these T/c rifles since the 80's and have been missing out shooting them.

I have two T/c scouts which are excellent shooting rifles and haven't seen the light of day for some time.
Cant get no better for a hard hitting accurate 1/28 carbine for hunting.
They were the one with the ported breech and designed for the DOnut Sabots that used to be popular before mmp's stole the show.

John from MD · Sep 3, 2020

Don't break any parts in the Scouts. The last time I looked for something I couldn't find much.

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