Buffalo Bore .357 in Carbine

[kmittleman]

Hi All,

I was thinking about using the BB 158 gr or 180 gr JHP’s in my 1894 for deer this season. Have any of you all used this combo on deer? If so, how did they perform ?

Thanks !

K

 

[TheOriginalMexicanBob]

While I have no real idea of the answer but does your '94 have Marlin Micro-Groove or Ballard style rifling in the barrel...it may not matter but it could affect performance of certain weight and construction bullets. Marlin changed the rifling some years back.

 

[Biggfoot44]

OP said JHPs , so the Microgroove vs Ballard isn't an issue .

Not Buffalo Bore , but I have hunted with mainstream .357 & carbine .

 

[kmittleman]

OP said JHPs , so the Microgroove vs Ballard isn't an issue .

Not Buffalo Bore , but I have hunted with mainstream .357 & carbine .

How did it do? What bullet design/weight did you use?

 

[Biggfoot44]

Bambi didn't cooperate for R-P 180jhp testing . Fed 158 JSP gives several feet of penetration on wild boar .

 

[Squaregrouper]

Make sure you can get to the minimum FPE. It is a rifle, so it needs rifle FPE even though it is a handgun cartridge.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Make sure you can get to the minimum FPE. It is a rifle, so it needs rifle FPE even though it is a handgun cartridge.

Yes , Maryland .

FPE per se is a very poor predictor of performance on game , and Md's reg is arbitrary .

In this context , plenty of loads that fall below Md's arbitrary number , are actually better on game than loads just above .

The sweet spot for .357 carbines of looking good on paper , and actual effectiveness is 158 gr . The question in
357 between Controlled Expansion vs Really Deep penetration is philosophical bordering on religious .

 

[kmittleman]

Make sure you can get to the minimum FPE. It is a rifle, so it needs rifle FPE even though it is a handgun cartridge.

That’s why I picked BB. The 158 gr XTP load gIves 1354 FPE and the 180 gr about 1294 FPE.

 

[Derwood]

I'd go with a JHP option. Those rounds are devastating. I use Hornady JHP in 44 out of my 1894 and it's way more than adequate. I've thought of getting a 357 rifle since the 44 can do a lot of meat damage.

 

[Biggfoot44]

I've thought of getting a 357 rifle since the 44 can do a lot of meat damage.

Well That's Very simple to remedy .

Switch to cast bullet in .44 mag . A hard cast ( or most JSP ) will go thru a deer , leaving a .44 cal channel . ( Slightly oversimplified regarding subtitles of Meplat design , but not significant in the context of Whitetail .) For that matter , thru handloads or careful factory load selection you can slow it down a bit , and still have the numbers on paper .

 

[lazarus]

Well That's Very simple to remedy .

Switch to cast bullet in .44 mag . A hard cast ( or most JSP ) will go thru a deer , leaving a .44 cal channel . ( Slightly oversimplified regarding subtitles of Meplat design , but not significant in the context of Whitetail .) For that matter , thru handloads or careful factory load selection you can slow it down a bit , and still have the numbers on paper .

A 300gr XTP under a moderate load of powder would probably work very well. The expansion range on that is 900-1700fps. If you were kicking them out at 1350fps that would probably work very, very well. I wouldn't want to use that if I was getting presentations at 200yds, but for 100yds and in, not much worry about bullet drop.

 

[Derwood]

Well That's Very simple to remedy .

Switch to cast bullet in .44 mag . A hard cast ( or most JSP ) will go thru a deer , leaving a .44 cal channel . ( Slightly oversimplified regarding subtitles of Meplat design , but not significant in the context of Whitetail .) For that matter , thru handloads or careful factory load selection you can slow it down a bit , and still have the numbers on paper .

Yes, I've thought about that. The first time I hit a deer with the Hornady JHP 44, I made a good "high/back shoulder" hit and the bullet practically tore the deer's leg off entirely like it was scene out of a B war movie. The deer was only about 15 yards away from me...so that's probably part of the reason for the massive damage. But I wasn't able to eat any of that shoulder area due to blood/bone damage. Most of my shots are in the 40-60 yard range and have gone through more cleanly. I'll try to find some hard cast bullets -- good idea. The main thing I don't want is for the deer to run a long way on me. I don't think that'll be a problem no matter what 44 load I use.

I recently got a Winchester 1892 (original, not a reproduction) in .38 WCF. I got a few cowboy load bullets with soft points and it shoots just as dead on as it did when it was made in the 1890's. I'm thinking of using that for firearms deer season this year! However, since there is a slight crimp on the .38 wcf cartridge, it may not be Maryland legal...I think it's a .38 bullet inside a .40 case...so I'll probably only use it in Virginia as long as there is a fair weather day when I'm hunting. I like to think the rifle took out its fair share of buffalo back in the day, so a whitetail should be no sweat, amiright?

 

[Biggfoot44]

A 300gr XTP under a moderate load of powder would probably work very well. The expansion range on that is 900-1700fps. If you were kicking them out at 1350fps that would probably work very, very well. I wouldn't want to use that if I was getting presentations at 200yds, but for 100yds and in, not much worry about bullet drop.

Yes , but depends upon the twist rate . With 1:38 on at least the older M94 Marlins , 300gr is on the edge , and some guns will have ok accuracy , some won't .

 

[Biggfoot44]

Keep in mind , that a non expanding ..44 is already the diameter of an expanded .35(7) , so further expansion of .44 projectiles is not mandatory for effectiveness .

As you probably know , the actual bullet diameter for .38/40 is .401 . The case is essentially a .44/40 necked down .030 . I've read here on MDS that .38/40 ( aka .38WCF) was listed somewhere as an example of a SWC . but can't point you to it this moment .

 

[John from MD]

Yes , but depends upon the twist rate . With 1:38 on at least the older M94 Marlins , 300gr is on the edge , and some guns will have ok accuracy , some won't .

Yup. Why Marlin used that 1 in 38 twist in their 1894's I never found out. I owned and hunted with both Micro Groove and Henry rifling and the longest bullet I was able to stabilize was 275 grains. The Micro Grooves worked ok with lead bullets at slow speeds but you need jacketed bullets for medium and hot loads.

I used to use a bullet designed by a guy called Ranch Dog which was a round flat with a very wide Meplat. It wouldn't feed in some rifles unless you adjusted the guide rail angles. These came in 265 (HP) and 275 grains and, with 20gns of 2400 or 22 of 4227, would drop hogs and deer DRT. I made mine around 12 BHN hardness and they mushroomed well.

 

[lazarus]

Keep in mind , that a non expanding ..44 is already the diameter of an expanded .35(7) , so further expansion of .44 projectiles is not mandatory for effectiveness .

As you probably know , the actual bullet diameter for .38/40 is .401 . The case is essentially a .44/40 necked down .030 . I've read here on MDS that .38/40 ( aka .38WCF) was listed somewhere as an example of a SWC . but can't point you to it this moment .

More or less, though a well expanding 38/357 can reach around .5-6". Of course the is versus a .44, that is actually .430 and can typically expand .6-.75".

But yeah, something in the 44-50 range I wouldn't have any qualms about a hard cast, or even just regular cast flat point or SWC. I wouldn't want to use something like that in a .40 or smaller for hunting. Though I'd personally rather do some extra meat damage and make that much more sure it was going to drop, and drop sooner by making a bigger hole through it with what I can/was willing to use to hunt with.

 

[gizzard]

unobtainable rounds, mythical like bigfoot