Rifle Zero Performance Question

[Hector J Medina G]

I did purchse a few boxes of the Hornady from Midway last week. They'll be on the menu this weekend as well.

I felt the factory loads of .223 were too heavy for turkey at ranges under 75 yards. Lots of meat lost. I really should be using a .22 Hornet but I did need something for coyotees as well, which infest any good turkey spot. The .222 and .204 fill that gap nicely.

I'm retiring next year and may find the time to take up reloading. Probably beats shopping with wife.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

My pleasure!
If you have to deal with Coyotes, then I would push even more for a rechambering job, or a rifle exchange.
You can easily download the 223 (as suggested by 4g64l), but it is somewhat marginal for the next generation of coyotes that is coming.

One more thing you MAY try if you really want to stick with the 222 is to get a good gunsmith to install a Harmonic Tuner of some sort (there are several in the market), and that may help "close the gap" between brands and types of ammo.

If your muzzle is threaded (as many are nowadays), you can use a muzzle weight/brake and spacer washers to tune the harmonics. A bit more cumbersome than the commercial units, but far more solid.

Best of lucks and keep us posted!




HM

 

[Bountied]

My pleasure!
If you have to deal with Coyotes, then I would push even more for a rechambering job, or a rifle exchange.
You can easily download the 223 (as suggested by 4g64l), but it is somewhat marginal for the next generation of coyotes that is coming.

One more thing you MAY try if you really want to stick with the 222 is to get a good gunsmith to install a Harmonic Tuner of some sort (there are several in the market), and that may help "close the gap" between brands and types of ammo.

If your muzzle is threaded (as many are nowadays), you can use a muzzle weight/brake and spacer washers to tune the harmonics. A bit more cumbersome than the commercial units, but far more solid.

Best of lucks and keep us posted!




HM

Harmonic tuners will only help with one frequency of ammo. You will need to retune it for another load. It's more useful for tuning a load you want to get the accuracy you want. In my experience.

 

[4g64loser]

I may be a layman but I've never heard of using a rifle cartridge for turkey hunting? I've always used a shotgun. I'll need to look into this rifle turkey load. Wouldn't a well placed .22lr to the dome achieve the same effect.?

Nope. Even high velocity 22lr is too slow. Rumors of 22mag being used are out there but I don't know anyone doing that myself. The 22hornet speeds seem to be what people want to clone. OP can do this in his 222 easily but it will require handloading.

I do not turkey hunt but two friends who do both use rifles (WV). One uses the above down loaded 223 recipe (cloning 22 hornet) and the other uses his 221 fireball but with a bonded bullet. The 22 hornet to 221 fireball speed range is what they consider "proper" and I'll defer to their results.

I would want full power 223 (or hotrod 222) as a minimum for coyotes. I liked 22-250ai and 6br for groundhogs/coyotes but that's a separate discussion and I don't want to clutter this thread too much.

 

[Bountied]

Nope. Even high velocity 22lr is too slow. Rumors of 22mag being used are out there but I don't know anyone doing that myself. The 22hornet speeds seem to be what people want to clone. OP can do this in his 222 easily but it will require handloading.

I do not turkey hunt but two friends who do both use rifles (WV). One uses the above down loaded 223 recipe (cloning 22 hornet) and the other uses his 221 fireball but with a bonded bullet. The 22 hornet to 221 fireball speed range is what they consider "proper" and I'll defer to their results.

I would want full power 223 (or hotrod 222) as a minimum for coyotes. I liked 22-250ai and 6br for groundhogs/coyotes but that's a separate discussion and I don't want to clutter this thread too much.

What ranges are they shooting from? All my turkey encounters have been within 40yds.

 

[Hector J Medina G]

Harmonic tuners will only help with one frequency of ammo. You will need to retune it for another load. It's more useful for tuning a load you want to get the accuracy you want. In my experience.

Hmmm, not always.

It depends on the barrel.

Harmonic tuners put the muzzle (position AND crosswise speed), at the endpoint of an excursion. For the same bullet weight and the same MV, the tuning will be very close, UNLESS the barrel has some internal stresses that were not relieved during manufacturing.
In these cases, a good cryo treatment will make the gun more useful.

Keep well and shoot straight!




HM

 

[Bountied]

Hmmm, not always.

It depends on the barrel.

Harmonic tuners put the muzzle (position AND crosswise speed), at the endpoint of an excursion. For the same bullet weight and the same MV, the tuning will be very close, UNLESS the barrel has some internal stresses that were not relieved during manufacturing.
In these cases, a good cryo treatment will make the gun more useful.

Keep well and shoot straight!




HM

Yeah, it depends on a lot of things. If you are switching up between lets say 150gr .308 then go to 178grs you'll need to retune. Also if your velocities are vastly different. The barrel makes a huge difference like you said. Tuners are the way to go IMO. You can tune the barrel to your load instead of tuning your load to your barrel, which is why I like them. I have two, one on a 20" .223 build and another on a 6.5 Tikka. Here is how it went when I was tuning my .223. I went with setting 2 and shot a .75" 5 shot group at 200yds.

 

[4g64loser]

What ranges are they shooting from? All my turkey encounters have been within 40yds.

One has taken turkey with his hornet analog load out over 100. He's done em up close too but he prefers to stake out long shooting lanes or field corners.

Distance is not an obstacle to him. Couple years ago, he took his elk just before dark overwatching a big valley. First shot at 729, hit it again on the run at 705. Either wound would have been fatal but it was getting dark and he had a long hike to get to the spot to start tracking.

 

[Hector J Medina G]

@ Bountied
Congrats on keeping good records! Not many do that and they need to "repeat history" LOL!

Depending on the build I would have used 3 or 5 shot groups, but perhaps you were building a "spaghetti" barrel unit, or you were mostly interested in the first two shots from cold. BOTH very respectable endeavors.

It is interesting because your target shows how the predominant dispersion direction rotates as you move the harmonics tuner. From a predominant 10:00 to 4:00 it goes to a 7:00 to 01:00 by setting 4, then goes back to 10:00 to 04:00 again by setting 5.
And this is fairly typical and more evident when you use more shots per group.

People often question why the change in MV leads to lateral changes in POI, and here is the perfect example of the real question being : ¿Why wouldn't it? since the muzzle is pointing at different directions when the projectile exits.

Don't know what is the "pitch" of your harmonics tuner's screw part thread, but as you can see, very small changes lead to large results. That is why a simple muzzle weight/brake with spacer washers CAN be used successfully. Spacer washers are available that are calibrated to every 0.005" thickness.
Personally, I use a series of washers that can give me any spacing up to 0.160", just by combining different thicknesses of no more than 6 washers.
It is also interesting to note that, in YOUR barrel, the even settings (2,4,6,8,10) seem to work better than the odd settings, which gives us some idea of the periodicity of the harmonics in question.

Thanks again for posting your target.

Now, just to clarify, in my posting I specified: "For the same bullet weight and the same MV, the tuning will be very close,...."

It is not always easy to find "matching" loads, but my point is that once you find the "natural" frequency where your barrel vibrates at certain energy levels, sometimes it is a good idea to use that point as a starting point when you want to develop a new load.

;-)

Keep well and shoot straight!




HM

 

[radarman]

I may be a layman but I've never heard of using a rifle cartridge for turkey hunting? I've always used a shotgun. I'll need to look into this rifle turkey load. Wouldn't a well placed .22lr to the dome achieve the same effect.?

The three western counties of Maryland offer a 1 week turkey season in the fall. It's the only season where shotgun, rifles and handgus are legal. It's a completely different style of turkey hunting than spring gobbler with a shotgun. Yes a .22 works at short ranges. I took one with a .22 Colt Woodsman handgun in 2019. <10 Yard shot after calling it up over a ledge.

 

[radarman]

One more thing you MAY try if you really want to stick with the 222

and I must admit I have always enjoyed using whatever everyone else is not using. .222, 16 Ga, Remington accelerator sabot rounds etc.

 

[Hector J Medina G]

and I must admit I have always enjoyed using whatever everyone else is not using. .222, 16 Ga, Remington accelerator sabot rounds etc.

Good for you!

If you really want to stay away from the maddening crowds, then you really need to take up reloading and "roll your own".
It is a rabbit hole, though, you end up getting 4 hobbies in one: Shooting, reloading, casting, swaging and imagining. Because the possibilities that knowledge opens are simply amazing.

Good luck and keep us posted!




HM

 

[Uncle Duke]

and I must admit I have always enjoyed using whatever everyone else is not using. .222, 16 Ga, Remington accelerator sabot rounds etc.

A kindred spirit. Good for you!

Yes, there is indeed more to be enjoyed, than simply a world of 9mm and .223! The Triple Deuce was.....and remains....an excellent cartridge.

 

[Bountied]

and I must admit I have always enjoyed using whatever everyone else is not using. .222, 16 Ga, Remington accelerator sabot rounds etc.

I use both of those. Guess you better try something else. I don't have .460 Rowland yet...

 

[radarman]

Monday is range day. Hopefully not too crowded. 4 different brands, all 50 Gr. I suspect each brand will group nicely enough, only in a different location. TBD.

 

[atblis]

I’d loosen and retorque your action screws before going.