SBR questions?

[IMBLITZVT]

...They specify with the barrel length measurement, but not with the OAL. They do say muzzle, but they are not clear about muzzle devices...

So you thought the permanently attached Muzzle device only counted towards the length of the barrel but not the OAL? I guess I could kind of see that but not really... Its is permanently attached it part of the barrel If its part of the barrel, how could it not count towards OAL? Anyway... how about Butt Pads or stock extenders? Do they count?

 

[Pinecone]

No, my point was that the muzzle device does NOT have to be permanently attached to count for OAL. It DOES have to be permanently attached to count for barrel length.

And any permanently attached device would definitely count towards OAL.

 

[erwos]

My own suspicion is that the BATFE procedure would not hold up in court if someone fought it; it actually differs from what the law says, which is to measure from the two extreme ends of the gun. That said, the MSP says they'll use the BATFE standard, so here we are.

Personally speaking, I wish they would go with simple OAL. I have at least two 9mm SBRs planned where I'd like to use a suppressor QD mount/FH to get myself to 29".

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Actually I think the idea of removing the Muzzle device (in not attached permanently) is actually the best way to go. Otherwise you get into a problem with removing suppressors and all the sudden its illegal... Stocks are much less likely to be removed/changed.

The ATF put a guy in jail for a slam firing M16. There stupid one shot per trigger pull held up even for a malfunctioning dangerous gun. They declared that a shoe stringer could be a MG. This actually makes more sense than most ATF rules. The only question that leaves me is what about but pads.

Here is another good question about Permanently attached Muzzle devices. Ok, Say you pin on a complete cylinder. On that counts for sure. Then you mill out three prongs. Well that counts. Well now down to two prongs, where one is just removed? So more than 1/3rd is open. Yes that counts. Well then remove the second prong, so only one is left? Now 2/3rds of the original cylinder is gone. Now reduce the width of the prong so that now 9/10ths of the cylinder is gone. Its like having a cleaning rod pinned to the muzzle? Does that still count? What if you weld the bayonet on the muzzle? Does the blade of the bayonet now count?

 

[RoboRay]

Oh, please let the bayonet count... please let the bayonet count...

That would be utterly hilarious that you could make a banned weapon legal under MD law by adding a bayonet.

 

[erwos]

Oh, please let the bayonet count... please let the bayonet count...

That would be utterly hilarious that you could make a banned weapon legal under MD law by adding a bayonet.

It doesn't count according to the BATFE's standard... which is what the MSP uses. And, really, while I support non-pinned muzzle devices being counted, bayonets are just stupid.

 

[NateIU10]

I think permanent attachment makes sense for barrel length. I do not think it does for OAL. Does a stock or stock pad have to be removed? I mean, we measure fully extended, and that's the easiest thing to change in the world.

Eta: look at the reason OAL matters outside of putting it on an NFA form. It's about concealability of the firearm. Whether the muzzle device is pinned or not does not make that configuration more or less concealable.

 

[dblas]

And yet the AG still won't answer the damn questions about NFA guns. The conspiracy theorist in me is almost wondering if he's got the opinion and is stalling release because it's rather favorable to us.

We have been trying to get an answer to those, now that most of the new bills have been submitted, focus can shift a bit to other things and this is one of them.

 

[erwos]

We have been trying to get an answer to those, now that most of the new bills have been submitted, focus can shift a bit to other things and this is one of them.

Hell yes!

 

[SB281 Blaster]

I think the folks in Pikesville would prefer to continue to handle SBRs as in the past. That was their stance initially last summer. Then some political pressure came to bare and they did a 180. They may not put anything in writing and just "not disapprove" or reject the next SBR in the pipeline that is not an HBAR with OAL less than 29". This would be non-committal and allow them more opportunity to change their minds either way later. Their interpretation of an HBAR exception has been very good and should continue to be so unless the lawmakers figure a way to ban them too. MSP knows better than anyone that very few crimes, if any to speak of, are committed with SBRs and HBARs. It's all political.

 

[Slowhand]

It doesn't count according to the BATFE's standard... which is what the MSP uses. And, really, while I support non-pinned muzzle devices being counted, bayonets are just stupid.

How about a really sharp, pointy suppressor that you refer to as a cylindrical bayonet?

 

[tc617]

Actually I think the idea of removing the Muzzle device (in not attached permanently) is actually the best way to go. Otherwise you get into a problem with removing suppressors and all the sudden its illegal... Stocks are much less likely to be removed/changed.

The ATF put a guy in jail for a slam firing M16. There stupid one shot per trigger pull held up even for a malfunctioning dangerous gun. They declared that a shoe stringer could be a MG. This actually makes more sense than most ATF rules. The only question that leaves me is what about but pads.

Here is another good question about Permanently attached Muzzle devices. Ok, Say you pin on a complete cylinder. On that counts for sure. Then you mill out three prongs. Well that counts. Well now down to two prongs, where one is just removed? So more than 1/3rd is open. Yes that counts. Well then remove the second prong, so only one is left? Now 2/3rds of the original cylinder is gone. Now reduce the width of the prong so that now 9/10ths of the cylinder is gone. Its like having a cleaning rod pinned to the muzzle? Does that still count? What if you weld the bayonet on the muzzle? Does the blade of the bayonet now count?

Don't laugh... I've seen builds on Calguns.net with welded tactical bottle openers, bayonets, fake cans, and the sorts to barrels to meet California's 30" minimum OAL requirement w/stock folded/collapsed.