Tysons Corner mall a gun free zone?

[novus collectus]

What are the Virginia laws about gun free zones and malls? Is Tysons Corner one? Is it just for open carry, or all carry?

 

[alucard0822]

Yes, it is a posted victim vulnerability zone. The way the law reads, carrying in a posted place is technically not legal, however the penalty is a trespassing charge, not a gun charge. There is some varyance in application of the law, some say you are asked to leave if you are discovered, and will only face a charge if you refuse to do so. Some say you are by default trespassing if carrying, and therefore you can be charged even if you leave immediately. The way I read it, basically a permit does not grant you permission to carry where prohibited by owner, however lacking "authorization" seems to be less about prohibiting carrying as it is about restricting the state and in turn a CHL holders authority to carry, overriding a property owners ability to order someone to leave for that reason. Carrying openly, you avoid the grey area of being charged immediately even if willing to leave immediately, but at most of the malls in the area, you will be promptly escorted out by the first security guard that sees you carrying. That being said, NOVA malls are full of gang members and general hooliganery, so the slim possibility of recieving a trespassing charge is a small price to pay for having the means to defend your life in an area that is becoming increasingly dangerous. I have always carried in VA malls ever since I got my FL CCW a couple years ago, and just use a very low profile rig, same as I wear to gunshows where they require all guns to be checked and unloaded (policy, but not law), normally a J-frame right side IWB, and a 380 in my left pocket (used to be a Bersa, now its the LCP).

This is the statute:

O. The granting of a concealed handgun permit shall not thereby authorize the possession of any handgun or other weapon on property or in places where such possession is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the owner of private property.

VA code §18.2-308 (O.):

 

[novus collectus]

The reason I ask is because Tysons had a mugging in the parking lot last night where the purse snatcher slashed the woman as she resisted.

Fairfax County police are investigating an attack on a shopper outside Tysons Galleria Monday night.

A man with a knife snuck up on a woman as she walked outside the doors of Neiman Marcus around 7:30 p.m.

Police said the man tried to cut the woman's purse strap to steal her wallet.

She was walking in the parking lot alone and fought off the attacker. During the fight, she was cut with the knife on her hand. The woman was taken to a hospital with minor injuries.

K-9 units searched the area but did not find anyone meeting the attacker's description.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Shopper-Attacked-at-Tyson-Corner-Mall.html

When googling the story I also came across this from a few days ago.

TYSONS CORNER, Va. - Fairfax County Police are looking for two men who allegedly abducted and robbed a woman at gunpoint in broad daylight.

A 36-year-old Arlington woman was abducted at the Pike 7 Plaza on Leesburg Pike around 1:45 p.m. on Nov. 6, police say.

The woman was getting out of her car when she saw a man standing between her and the car door. A second suspect approached them as the man showed the woman a gun and told her to get out of the car, police say.

Both men ordered the woman to get into a gold-colored sedan with Michigan license plates.

http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=25&sid=1516386

 

[DZ]

Are there signs posted? I dont recall ever seeing any.

 

[marte616]

If you are in the parking lot and it is accesible by the general public, i.e., from the town, then you are ok. I would CCW anyway. CONCEALED being the caveat!

 

[alucard0822]

Are there signs posted? I dont recall ever seeing any.

Yes, signs by the door, the whole "no skateboarding, no liotering, no weapons" thing.

Thing is, that I would think it leaves the mall liable for a lawsuit, if you are attacked, and left your gun in the car due to the policy. Same thing if they banned medical Oxygen tanks, and someone passed out and fell, injuring themselves for following policy. However, it is a stupid policy, and doesn't have the teeth of something like the 30.06 registered signs in Texas. Come to PA, the signs have absolutely 0 authority, and I havent seen any in malls, people open carry quite often, and the worst that can happen is that you could be asked to leave however that almost never happens. Same as most other things, I avoid the anti gun NOVA malls if at all possible, vote with your dollar, but If I go there for some reason, I am definitely totin a roscoe

 

[K-Romulus]

What are the Virginia laws about gun free zones and malls? Is Tysons Corner one? Is it just for open carry, or all carry?

I know a guy who made multiple trips there while CCW'g back when he lived in VA. . . .

ETA for clarity: and the door he entered/exited was NOT posted in any way . . .

 

[gamer_jim]

The question is does state law make it illegal to carry, if you have a CCW permit, on private property if the owner has posted such a sign.

In Maine it is against state law to carry in an establishment that serves liquor that has posted a no firearms sign. It is only 1 of 2 places you cannot carry in Maine, the other being on a K-12 school grounds. So there the no guns sign does have teeth, but only because state law has already said so. Any other store in Maine can only ask you to leave.

Does VA law specifically make it a criminal violation to carry if the owner says not to?

 

[DZ]

Huh. Last time my gf dragged me there we entered on the third (?) level of bloomingdales(?) from the parking garage. No signs at all.

 

[alucard0822]

Does VA law specifically make it a criminal violation to carry if the owner says not to?

no, only that a permit does not authorize someone to carry where posted by the owner, but there is no penalty, and every case I can find was a trespassing charge where someone refused to leave, there is nothing about trespassing charges if you leave voluntarily when asked to do so by a mall employee.

I linked the statute in post #2

In the same way, a mall employee has no right to detain you unless they are a state/city/county LEO. If they tell you to come to some back room and wait for the police, there is nothing they can do to keep you from ignoring them and walking straight out the door.

 

[SCARCQB]

Off limits to CCW in Virginia

These are some off the establishments in Virginia that prohibit CCW within thier properties as complied by the Virginia Citizens Defense league ( VCDL).

Restaurants
Buffalo Wild Wings
Bungalow Billiards
Great American Restaurants
Kabuki Japanese Steak House
Outback Steakhouse (Fairfax)
Red Lobster
Richbrau Brewing Co.
Rivermill Map Company
TGI Fridays

Malls
Lynnhaven Mall
Manassas Mall
Potomac Mills Mall
Short Pump Town Center
Spotsylvania Mall
Springfield Mall
Valley View Mall Roanoke
Banks
BB&T
First Union Bank
Langley Federal Credit Union
Wachovia

Retail
Jared Jewelry
K-Mart
Maxway Department Stores
Value City Furniture
Entertainment
Paramounts Kings Dominion
Tinseltown USA Movie Theater
Other
AARP
Free Lance-Star
Nova Jeepers Association
PTA
Smith & Wesson

 

[SCARCQB]

Off limits to CCW in Virginia

These are some off the establishments in Virginia that prohibit CCW within thier properties as complied by the Virginia Citizens Defense league ( VCDL).

Restaurants
Buffalo Wild Wings
Bungalow Billiards
Great American Restaurants
Kabuki Japanese Steak House
Outback Steakhouse (Fairfax)
Red Lobster
Richbrau Brewing Co.
Rivermill Map Company
TGI Fridays

Malls
Lynnhaven Mall
Manassas Mall
Potomac Mills Mall
Short Pump Town Center
Spotsylvania Mall
Springfield Mall
Tysons Corner Mall
Valley View Mall Roanoke
Banks
BB&T
First Union Bank
Langley Federal Credit Union
Wachovia

Retail
Jared Jewelry
K-Mart
Maxway Department Stores
Value City Furniture
Entertainment
Paramounts Kings Dominion
Tinseltown USA Movie Theater
Other
AARP
Free Lance-Star
Nova Jeepers Association
PTA
Smith & Wesson

 

[alucard0822]

Most of those restraunts serve alcohol, so it would be ilegal to CC there anyway per state law, they might be reffering to a policy aggainst OC (legal in a restraunt that serves alcohol).

And what the hell is Smith and Wesson doing on that list, if it is THE S&W, then that might be one we can reach, and put some pressure on, if it is some other buisness, then we should politely inform the real S&W that there is an anti gun company violating their trademark.

 

[mdjamesd]

here's another list

http://www.vcdl.org/static/gue.html

Smith & Wesson

NOTE: THE NEW OWNERS HAVE DONE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO FIX THE EGREGIOUS AGREEMENT THE PREVIOUS OWNERS SIGNED WITH THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION. OUR CALL FOR A BOYCOTT OF SMITH & WESSON STILL STANDS!

The Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc. is calling for all supporters of the Second Amendment to vote with their pocket books, and refuse to purchase any products from Smith & Wesson. This boycott is the only viable course of action against a corporate management which has agreed with the Clinton administration to impose regulations on the American people which they could not get from our elected representatives. Smith & Wesson has agreed to impose on its dealers requirements that they not sell guns at gun shows when private sales occur without a background check, even though such sales would otherwise be lawful. Further, each sale of Smith & Wesson firearms must include a written certification that the purchaser has obtained training in the safe handling and storage of firearms.

A more important issue is that guns cannot be transferred as allowed under the Brady Law if the background check is not completed in the legally allowed time. One must wait for the background check to be complete, even if it is dragged out for months. Remember how the National Instant Check System was down for days on the weekend of the so called "Million Mom March?"

The sale of Smith & Wesson to a US based company is irrelevant to the issue. Neither the old company (Tompkins), nor the new company (then called Saf-T-Hammer), have done anything to void the March 17, 2000 agreement. At the February 2002 S. H. O. T. Show in Las Vegas, then Smith & Wesson President, Bob Scott, admitted to me and another activist, that the agreement is still in place, and if we get a new US President, it could immediately be enforced. Please look at the agreement to remind yourself as to how egregious is at:

http://www.hud.gov/library/bookshelf18/pressrel/gunagree.html

The agreement contains nearly all of the items on the gun haters wish list. Please look at the web page. If it doesn't make you angry, you are not a supporter of the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution. On principle, we oppose those who would ban Smith & Wesson's new gun, or any other gun. However, we hope no supporter of our gun rights will support Smith & Wesson by purchasing it, or any other of their guns, until they void the HUD agreement.

Let's be clear; Smith & Wesson cannot be allowed to hide behind the notion that we are better off that it is owned by a US company, than an UK company. So far, both companies are exactly the same; they both are supportive of the agreement they made with Clinton's HUD.

Related Links:
http://www.gunowners.org/a03210 0.htm
http://www.ustreas.g ov/press/releases/ls551.htm
http://www.lnei lsmith.com/smithandwessonmustdie.html
http://www.actioname rica.org/guns/swbetray.html
http://hunting. about.com/library/weekly/aa010515.htm
GRPC Resolution Concerning Smith & Wesson

 

[h2u]

.

These are some off the establishments in Virginia that prohibit CCW within thier properties as complied by the Virginia Citizens Defense league ( VCDL).

Restaurants
Buffalo Wild Wings
Bungalow Billiards
Great American Restaurants
Kabuki Japanese Steak House
Outback Steakhouse (Fairfax)
Red Lobster
Richbrau Brewing Co.
Rivermill Map Company
TGI Fridays

Malls
Lynnhaven Mall
Manassas Mall
Potomac Mills Mall
Short Pump Town Center
Spotsylvania Mall
Springfield Mall
Tysons Corner Mall
Valley View Mall Roanoke
Banks
BB&T
First Union Bank
Langley Federal Credit Union
Wachovia

Retail
Jared Jewelry
K-Mart
Maxway Department Stores
Value City Furniture
Entertainment
Paramounts Kings Dominion
Tinseltown USA Movie Theater
Other
AARP
Free Lance-Star
Nova Jeepers Association HUH? A Jeep Club? Dont even get me started......
PTA
Smith & Wesson I MUST be seeing things here.....

 

[hole punch]

We're sorry, but the page you requested is not available. Consider using one of the resources listed on this page to locate the information you requested.
Thank you for visiting HUD's Homes and Communities site.

looks like HUD took that page down

 

[kahn]

These are some off the establishments in Virginia that prohibit CCW within thier properties as complied by the Virginia Citizens Defense league ( VCDL).

Restaurants
Buffalo Wild Wings
Bungalow Billiards
Great American Restaurants
Kabuki Japanese Steak House
Outback Steakhouse (Fairfax)
Red Lobster
Richbrau Brewing Co.
Rivermill Map Company
TGI Fridays

Malls
Lynnhaven Mall
Manassas Mall
Potomac Mills Mall
Short Pump Town Center
Spotsylvania Mall
Springfield Mall
Valley View Mall Roanoke
Banks
BB&T
First Union Bank
Langley Federal Credit Union
Wachovia

Retail
Jared Jewelry
K-Mart
Maxway Department Stores
Value City Furniture
Entertainment
Paramounts Kings Dominion
Tinseltown USA Movie Theater
Other
AARP
Free Lance-Star
Nova Jeepers Association
PTA
Smith & Wesson

Around here we (the CWP Holders) let it be known publicly that CWP holders would not do business with places that prohibited CC. When it looked like 61,300 CWP holders would not be doing business with certain companies, the signs came down and carry was allowed.