357 Magnum versus 38 Special

[TheOriginalMexicanBob]

Short of an ammunition problem such as a squib load…the two most likely revolver failures will be either short-stroking the trigger and temporarily locking it up until you release the trigger fully…or getting a round caught under the extractor star while loading or unloading under stress.

Both are user induced…not the fault of the revolver. Training and practice can reduce the chances of that occurring.

 

[Baccusboy]

Your average 357 weighs a small number of ounces more than your average 357. Shooting, sure. I handled plenty of 2-4” 357s that were lighter than my 6” Colt official police…and it’s not that heavy, about the weight of a loaded Glock 17.

And S&W model 10 4” is just shy of 35oz unloaded. Heavier than my old Colt OP 6”. An S&W 686 .357 4” is Just over 40oz. Less than a 6oz weight difference and the 686 is less than an inch longer and fractions of an inch taller and wider than the model 10.

And a scandium framed 357 is also fractions on an inch bigger and heavier than similar lightweight frames 38 snubs. Not that I’d want to shoot that tiny 357.

Recoil is more the issue than weight with the 38spc vs 357 debate. Unless you don’t compare apples to apples. I mean, my 8 3/8” N-frame weighs 48oz. But that is a 357 on a 44 magnum frame. My Dan Wesson 6” by comparison, which is also built heavy is only 56oz. Only half a pound heavier. Those are cannons.

I was thinking Ruger LCRx in .38 special at 16oz unloaded. Not with +p ammo:

Ruger LCRx 38 Special +P 3in Matte Black Revolver - 5 Rounds

Ruger LCRx 38 Special +P 3in Matte Black Revolver - 5 Rounds

www.sportsmans.com

I would be looking at something like this, which my wife or daughter could handle. Probably with that pink Hornady Load for ladies. Or wadcutters simply for the light recoil and penetration.

My wife and daughter are quite thin/weak physically.

 

[trickg]

Your average 357 weighs a small number of ounces more than your average 357. Shooting, sure. I handled plenty of 2-4” 357s that were lighter than my 6” Colt official police…and it’s not that heavy, about the weight of a loaded Glock 17.

And S&W model 10 4” is just shy of 35oz unloaded. Heavier than my old Colt OP 6”. An S&W 686 .357 4” is Just over 40oz. Less than a 6oz weight difference and the 686 is less than an inch longer and fractions of an inch taller and wider than the model 10.

And a scandium framed 357 is also fractions on an inch bigger and heavier than similar lightweight frames 38 snubs. Not that I’d want to shoot that tiny 357.

Recoil is more the issue than weight with the 38spc vs 357 debate. Unless you don’t compare apples to apples. I mean, my 8 3/8” N-frame weighs 48oz. But that is a 357 on a 44 magnum frame. My Dan Wesson 6” by comparison, which is also built heavy is only 56oz. Only half a pound heavier. Those are cannons.

Read that again - your average 357 weighs more than an average 357? I don't think that's quite what you wanted to say.

Recoil is always a matter of physics - lighter weight guns always recoil more than heavier guns with the same load - that's just basic physics. At the end of the day you can still shoot 38s through any 357, so I'm not sure why this is even a topic of discussion. I shot a lot of 38s through my 357s, especially when my kids were young and I was teaching them to shoot. It has only been recently that I've loaded up some fairly hot 357s.

Historically you also have things a bit off - the N frame wasn't developed for the 44 Magnum. It was developed for the Hand Ejector Triple Lock in 44 Special. That was in 1908. There were a lot of other revolvers developed around the N frame long before the 44 Magnum came into existence in 1956 with the S&W 44 Magnum, now known as the "S&W Pre-29" - the Model 29 designation wasn't started until 1957, which incidentally the same year the Model 27 in 357 on that frame was introduced.

I own a first year Pre-29 that my Dad bought brand new in 1956. Some contend that the N frame isn't actually strong enough for the Model 29.

My point being is that if you're going to come on and post like you know what you're talking about, you should probably actually know what you're talking about.

 

[rbird7282]

You are correct about SCOTUS but, that does not stop the Liberal crazy gun control States from doing so. I remember reading in the newspaper many years ago it happened in NJ. It went through the courts and the person was found not guilty. That said to defend himself the cost of the lawyers almost bankrupted him.

You’re talking about two different things. Having a gun in your home for self defense is legal, period. (Not speaking about felons or otherwise prohibited persons )
Whether a (self defense) shooting is legal is another matter entirely.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Biggfoot44]

I'm outspoken Revolver Fan , so Yeah !

I won't claim Revolvers can't malfunction, but :

Revolvers have very short list of prerequisites for maximum reliability. Revolvers are more tolerant of neglect .

Revolvers have simplest manual of arms at basic level .

Once you learn to shoot them well , you will amaze yourself how much more accurate they are than bottomfeeders .

I'm almost agnostic between. 38 and .357 guns for most people . Full power .357 takes a base level of skills , and practice to maintain sufficient accuracy and control. Meanwhile +P and +P+ .38 are more than plenty adequate for Defense . And the Era of cheap trade in .357's is long gone .

 

[minux]

Recoil is always a matter of physics - lighter weight guns always recoil more than heavier guns with the same load - that's just basic physics. At the end of the day you can still shoot 38s through any 357, so I'm not sure why this is even a topic of discussion. I shot a lot of 38s through my 357s, especially when my kids were young and I was teaching them to shoot. It has only been recently that I've loaded up some fairly hot 357s.

Wanted to get thoughts on a 357 MAG versus a 38 Special Revolver for my situation. Been some awesome information learned in the thread. Appreciate everyone!

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Home defense can be a conundrum, there is no correct answer or method. There are too many variables to be considered in a split second or waking up out of a sound sleep during a break in. Whatever weapon you have handy and that you are comfortable with is a start. Size, type, of defensive weapon used is very subjective.

The best thing is to develop a defensive posture just having a weapon for home defense is a small part of home defense.
You need to Identify the high-risk areas in your house. To identify areas in your home could be spots that allow intruders to hide. Such as narrow corridors that you could get trapped in.

With that said a good alarm system with cameras is a good start. This will help ID if there are any weapons and how many intruders there are.

If possible, create a safe room with doors and walls that can protect you and this makes it difficult for intruders to get to you so you can call 911 for help. If you have a master bedroom with a connected bathroom you could make the bathroom a safe room with nominal costs and do it yourself skills and materials. A cast iron tub to lay and ballistic panels to replace sheet rock with a steel door and frame opening out instead of in.

You need to think about possible escape routes from different areas of your home as intruders can strike any time. Living in an apartment is probably one of the worst places to live and to develop an adequate defensive posture. A portable fire escape ladder from a balcony or window should be considered. An apartment also brings additional challenges. A doorbell camera is a first line of defense. Where and how to store your weapon for ready access when you have children?

Next you need to know the local and state laws in your area. For example, do you live with 100 yards of a school? In some States if you do you may be violating the law if you have a gun in your house.

You need to be realistic with your skills and capabilities of your weapons. So do your family members to also protect themselves as you may not be there to protect them. I grew up learning to shoot and the important of safety at the age of 6. My wife does not like guns but understands the importance of them for when the SHTF or to defend from intruders. She has learned too properly to us them along with other items.

Sorry to hijack the thread but there is a lot more to think about other than caliber, size, and type of weapon.

I don't find this as hijacking, but is welcomed as great info for anyone's prep in case the worst ever hits the fan.

In case anyone doubts that it CAN happen, my house has been breached before, and most recently I had a customer in Hunt Valley who told me her basement window was broken, by a perp. She told me she wasn't home when it happened, but the cops were called, she then said he apparently was still in the house when she arrived home, but fled. She also said when he was found, he had multiple keys or sets of keys for various makes and models of vehicles from other properties in the vicinity. The day I met to measure her window, I found one of her key FOB's in a pile of belongings near the door to the section of basement where point of entry was. He potentially could have stolen her car had things gone differently.

 

[joppaj]

Wanted to get thoughts on a 357 MAG versus a 38 Special Revolver for my situation. Been some awesome information learned in the thread. Appreciate everyone!

To very narrowly answer your question, I can't think of any real advantage to getting a revolver chambered in .38. Since the .357 allows you to shoot both, do that.

 

[308Scout]

I was thinking Ruger LCRx in .38 special at 16oz unloaded. Not with +p ammo:

Ruger LCRx 38 Special +P 3in Matte Black Revolver - 5 Rounds

Ruger LCRx 38 Special +P 3in Matte Black Revolver - 5 Rounds

www.sportsmans.com

I would be looking at something like this, which my wife or daughter could handle. Probably with that pink Hornady Load for ladies. Or wadcutters simply for the light recoil and penetration.

My wife and daughter are quite thin/weak physically.

If recoil management may present an issue for either, the .357 version weighs in at ~21oz and would absorb a lot more felt recoil shooting .38spls. The LCRs (particularly the lighter ones) are not exactly light shooting guns.

 

[lazarus]

Thinks hard ..... Technically true , but Extremely unlikely scenarios. 100x more likely the bad breath scenario of muzzle in contcact with bad guy . ( Semiauto very likely to Not fire with slide pushed out of battery , revolver will repeatedly go bang .)

You have to push it relatively hard into someone to push it out of battery. How many instances have police or SD shootings turned south because someone was using a semi-auto and it got pushed out of battery? I am sure it's happened. I've also never heard of it ever happening. I have heard of at least one instance of someone grabbing the cylinder of a revolver and preventing the person from firing it. I'll have to find it. It was a bank robbery, security guard grabbed the revolver jamming it up IIRC.

To what you were saying later, don't get me wrong, I LOVE me a revolver. Very deeply. Just that I don't think one is nearly as good for a newbie shooter or for self defense. In certain narrow cases or for very certain individuals, sure. But unless you know you'll face that narrow case, why wouldn't you generally carry or have as a primary self defense weapon something more capable? My revolvers are very accurate. A lot of fun to shoot. I love I don't have to chase brass for reloading. And it is nice being able to easily load my 357s and 44 mags light for plinking and then load up a cylinder of full house magnum and make everyone on the range jump.

 

[lazarus]

I was thinking Ruger LCRx in .38 special at 16oz unloaded. Not with +p ammo:

Ruger LCRx 38 Special +P 3in Matte Black Revolver - 5 Rounds

Ruger LCRx 38 Special +P 3in Matte Black Revolver - 5 Rounds

www.sportsmans.com

I would be looking at something like this, which my wife or daughter could handle. Probably with that pink Hornady Load for ladies. Or wadcutters simply for the light recoil and penetration.

My wife and daughter are quite thin/weak physically.

Honestly if that is a problem, a slightly heavier revolver (even in 38spc) would be better. Even with light loads, a 16oz gun is going to have a fair amount of recoil. With a standard power 38spc it'll have more recoil than a G19. Fully loaded LCRx with 5 rounds of 158gr weighs about 20oz. A fully loaded G19 is about 30oz. The semi-auto action and lower bore access also reduces actual and felt recoil. 5 rounds is also not a whole lot to work with for an inexperienced shooter where they are probably going to be a lot more likely to miss. Slower follow ups from the muzzle flip too. And lastly a 3in barrel increases blast (what little there is, sure) and also reduces sight radius decreasing practical accuracy.

IMHO, I'd really get a 4-5" revolver for an inexperienced shooter. Or if strength is really THAT much of an issue, than I'd frankly just go with a 22. 10 rounds of 22 that can be placed somewhat accurately and quickly is a lot better than 5 rounds of 38spc that can't be fired accurately.

 

[lazarus]

Read that again - your average 357 weighs more than an average 357? I don't think that's quite what you wanted to say.

Recoil is always a matter of physics - lighter weight guns always recoil more than heavier guns with the same load - that's just basic physics. At the end of the day you can still shoot 38s through any 357, so I'm not sure why this is even a topic of discussion. I shot a lot of 38s through my 357s, especially when my kids were young and I was teaching them to shoot. It has only been recently that I've loaded up some fairly hot 357s.

Historically you also have things a bit off - the N frame wasn't developed for the 44 Magnum. It was developed for the Hand Ejector Triple Lock in 44 Special. That was in 1908. There were a lot of other revolvers developed around the N frame long before the 44 Magnum came into existence in 1956 with the S&W 44 Magnum, now known as the "S&W Pre-29" - the Model 29 designation wasn't started until 1957, which incidentally the same year the Model 27 in 357 on that frame was introduced.

I own a first year Pre-29 that my Dad bought brand new in 1956. Some contend that the N frame isn't actually strong enough for the Model 29.

My point being is that if you're going to come on and post like you know what you're talking about, you should probably actually know what you're talking about.

Sorry, yeah. Typing on my phone. I meant to say your average 357 doesn't weigh that much more than your average 38spc. You can certainly find very heavy 357s and very light 38spc. But you can also find the exact reverse, very light 357s and very light 38spc.

Okay, you have me there that the N-frame was originally developed for the 44spc.

 

[linkstate]

Since we’re still beating this poor horse, a couple more points.

I’m not sure about the Ruger LCRs but it has been my experience that .22 revolvers have heavier trigger pulls than their center fire counterparts. If weight or strength is a concern as far as holding it up, a small lightweight DA revolver requires a good grip to not throw accuracy off with the heavier trigger pull. At in your grill distance, it probably doesn’t matter. It’s all a trade off.

One more point that I don’t think has been mentioned. This comes down to training and experience and all of that but the few new shooters I have taken to the range all seemed to prefer the medium framed .357 shooting .38s over a similar sized semi autos.

I think part of that is with a revolver, there is more of a feeling of being “behind” the gun. It seems to feel safer and more secure the way it recoils. With a semi auto, the moving slide and flying brass is a distraction. Now I’m no trainer and a good instructor can probably get people that are nervous, over that quickly. Also, it’s a simpler operation to make a revolver safe, swing open that cylinder and it’s clear it’s not going to fire. All other safety rules apply.

 

[Harrys]

I don't find this as hijacking, but is welcomed as great info for anyone's prep in case the worst ever hits the fan.

In case anyone doubts that it CAN happen, my house has been breached before, and most recently I had a customer in Hunt Valley who told me her basement window was broken, by a perp. She told me she wasn't home when it happened, but the cops were called, she then said he apparently was still in the house when she arrived home, but fled. She also said when he was found, he had multiple keys or sets of keys for various makes and models of vehicles from other properties in the vicinity. The day I met to measure her window, I found one of her key FOB's in a pile of belongings near the door to the section of basement where point of entry was. He potentially could have stolen her car had things gone differently.

The basement is always the first choice for thugs as it is a major blind spot. Call me paranoid however, we lock up all our spare FOBs, keys in a safe. All except for the active vehicles which we always carry with us. I had our basement windows coated with a high-quality ballistic coating. You can throw a concrete block at then and the glass does not break.

 

[TI-tick]

I was thinking Ruger LCRx in .38 special at 16oz unloaded. Not with +p ammo:

Ruger LCRx 38 Special +P 3in Matte Black Revolver - 5 Rounds

Ruger LCRx 38 Special +P 3in Matte Black Revolver - 5 Rounds

www.sportsmans.com

I would be looking at something like this, which my wife or daughter could handle. Probably with that pink Hornady Load for ladies. Or wadcutters simply for the light recoil and penetration.

My wife and daughter are quite thin/weak physically.

I ****** up on an auction and bought a Colt PP that I thought was 38 spl,, but was act 38 S&W. Nice piece, great blue, MOP grips.

Took it to the range with my>80 year old mom who was dead nuts accurate with it and loved the experience.

Mom did not care for my G19 or XDM 45 or 38 spl.

380, 32 acp, or 22 mag may be considerations.

Gotta match the hatch.

 

[Baccusboy]

Another thought is some kind of Mak, CZ .380 variation, or in one of the original Russian configs.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Since we’re still beating this poor horse, a couple more points.

I’m not sure about the Ruger LCRs but it has been my experience that .22 revolvers have heavier trigger pulls than their center fire counterparts. If weight or strength is a concern as far as holding it up, a small lightweight DA revolver requires a good grip to not throw accuracy off with the heavier trigger pull. At in your grill distance, it probably doesn’t matter. It’s all a trade off.

One more point that I don’t think has been mentioned. This comes down to training and experience and all of that but the few new shooters I have taken to the range all seemed to prefer the medium framed .357 shooting .38s over a similar sized semi autos.

I think part of that is with a revolver, there is more of a feeling of being “behind” the gun. It seems to feel safer and more secure the way it recoils.

The heavy trigger pull for rimfire is more of a thing for smaller frame revolvers . Rimfire K frame triggers overlap the feel of typical centerfires .

With a revolver , all the movements and mechanical gyrations are directly controlled by the shooter . In airplane terms , revolver shooters are pilots;, semi shooters are passengers .

 

[Darkemp]

For me it’s more of the and versus or question. I have .38 only and .38/.357 revolvers and have many other semi options. I don’t carry my revolvers though or use them for HD but wouldn’t feel underarmed to do so. Just have other options that are better. I don’t think the revolvers do anything better than a Glock, Sig, CZ, or other reliable brand semi. When shooting at an indoor range you can clearly feel and hear the difference between .38 and .357 out of the same revolver.

 

[Magnumite]

A good bit of good information presented for the OP. Pros and cons for semi auto vs reovler and 38 vs 357.

One tidbit I didn’t notice mentioned. Given identical frames and makes, many times the 357 is a slightly heavier revolver with heavier barrel and a longer cylinder. All in effort of using mass to soak up some of the recoil. That will help tame 38 Special ammo recoil some and take the edge off of it.

A 3” barrel in lieu of a 2” barrel will work wonders on blast and recoil, and isn’t much difference to conceal considering the cylinder diameter.

Also, small guns in potent calibers are not beginner guns. They recoil hard, exhibit more muzzle flip, and push back harder compared to a medium frame revolver. A Smith K frame or Ruger old Six series revolvers would help with shootabilty.

 

[Blacksmith101]

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