38 ACP

[cbrenner]

Hi,

Does anyone have any experience or know a good resource for 38 ACP Loads? The manuals I have really don't have any data.

 

[DaemonAssassin]

380ACP, or did a new 38 caliber come out that I didn't know about?

 

[Pinecone]

Hodgdon and Accurate websites have loading data for their powders. And Hodgdon makes IMR and WW also.

 

[GNLaFrance]

380ACP, or did a new 38 caliber come out that I didn't know about?

113 years is hardly new. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38_ACP

 

[Threeband]

.38 Super is just a +P+ version of .38 ACP, so you could just use .38 Super brass to download to .38 ACP power levels.

 

[ENT Shooter]

I think he means 380 Auto. Anyone load for that? Any good recipes out there?

 

[DaemonAssassin]

113 years is hardly new. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38_ACP

Wow, I never knew. Thanks for the the link. Now I can learn something new on my day off.

Are there any handguns out there that are chambered in 38ACP, that are made new?

 

[rsideout]

I think he means 380 Auto. Anyone load for that? Any good recipes out there?

No, he means 38 ACP or 38 Automatic as pictured below. This is for use in a Colt 1902 Military, 1902 Sporting, or 1903 Pocket Hammer Pistol.

 

[Pinecone]

I am a dummy, I know about the .38 Auto, but it did not click.

I looked through my reloading manuals and the Hornady book has .38 Auto data.

Both my 3rd edition and my 9th edition have data. So pick up a Hornady book and you are good to go.

 

[Threeband]

...

Are there any handguns out there that are chambered in 38ACP, that are made new?

The .38 ACP was superseded in the 1920s by the .38 Super.

It was always one of the three standard chamberings of the Colt Government Model (1911): .45 ACP. 9mm Parabellum, and .38 Super ACP. It had a big following in Mexico, and other countries where civilians were forbidden to own "military calibers".


.38 Super is IDENTICAL to .38 Auto, except it's much more powerful. If you are really, really stupid, and want to injure yourself and destroy an old gun, you could fire a .38 Super round in an old .38 Auto pistol, but it would be very unwise and unsafe and truly stupid. The point is they are identical except for the power level.

Before the .357 Magnum came out, the .38 Super was popular with police who needed a pistol that could punch holes in automobiles.

The problems which held the .38 Super back over the years came from its odd SEMI-RIMMED case design. Most revolver rounds, like the .38 Special have a large diameter rim, larger than the case diameter. The rim serves to limit how far the cartridge goes into the chamber, and so positions it exactly. The .38 Special headspaces on its rim.

Most auto pistol rounds, like the 9mm Parabellum or .45 ACP are rimless, and headspace on the tiny step formed by the mouth of the case. The rimless design makes for more reliable feeding.

A few early auto pistol cartidges, including Browning's .32 Auto and .38 Auto had compromise semi-rimmed designs. The smaller rim was supposed to improve feeding, while providing reliable headspacing. Like most compromises promising the best of both worlds, it actually delivered the worst. Semi-rimmed cartridges got the reputation of being less reliable and less accurate than rimless designs.

In the 1970s Bar Sto began offering ,38 Super barrels set up to headspace on the chamber mouth. That greatly improved the accuracy. More recently, .38 Super cases have been made without the semi rim,in a true rimless version called .38 Comp. That solves the feed-reliability problem.

.38 Super is popular with IPSC shooters. It's usually chambered in 1911s and 1911 style pistols.


Wikipedia has a pretty good little article which is worth reading:l

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38_Super

 

[DaemonAssassin]

The .38 ACP was superseded in the 1920s by the .38 Super.

.38 Super is IDENTICAL to .38 Auto, except it's much more powerful. You could fire a .38 Super round in an old .38 Auto pistol, but it would be very unwise and unsafe and truly stupid. The point is they are identical except for the power level.

Before the .357 Magnum came out, the .38 Super was popular with police who needed a pistol that could punch holes in automobiles.

The problems which held the .38 Super back over the years came from its odd SEMI-RIMMED case design. Most revolver rounds, like the .38 Special have a large diameter rim, larger than the case diameter. The rim serves to limit how far the cartridge goes into the chamber, and so positions it exactly. The .38 Special headspaces on its rim.

Most auto pistol rounds, like the 9mm Parabellum or .45 ACP are rimless, and headspace on the tiny step formed by the mouth of the case. The rimless design makes for more reliable feeding.

A few early auto pistol cartidges, including Browning's .32 Auto and .38 Auto had compromise semi-rimmed designs. The smaller rim was supposed to improve feeding, while providing reliable headspacing. Like most compromises promising the best of both worlds, it actually delivered the worst. Semi-rimmed cartridges got the reputation of being less reliable and less accurate than rimless designs.

In the 1970s Bar Sto began offering ,38 Super barrels set up to headspace on the chamber mouth. That greatly improved the accuracy. More recently, .38 Super cases have been made without the semi rim,in a true rimless version called .38 Comp. That solves the feed-reliability problem.

.38 Super is popular with IPSC shooters. It's usually chambered in 1911s and 1911 style pistols.


Wikipedia has a pretty good little article which is worth reading:l

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38_Super

Thank you Threeband, the learning process never ends. I didn't realize the minor differences between the sub-sets of the 38 caliber, in regards to semi-auto chambering. I might start thinking about a sidearm in .38 Super, just to have fun and tinker with.

 

[Pinecone]

deleted

I was thinking the .38 Auto was not an ACP, but it is.

 

[Pinecone]

deleted as the issue has been fixed.

But to reiterate - DO NOT FIRE a .38 Super Auto round in a .38 Auto gun. You could destroy the gun and hurt yourself in the process.

 

[Threeband]

I would be VERY careful saying it in that way, as someone may read the first part and forget the second.

DO NOT FIRE a .38 Super Auto round in a .38 Auto gun. You could destroy the gun and hurt yourself in the process.

Kind of a shame to interfere with Darwin, but to save the old guns I've made these changes to my post:

It was always one of the three standard chamberings of the Colt Government Model (1911): .45 ACP. 9mm Parabellum, and .38 Super ACP. It had a big following in Mexico, and other countries where civilians were forbidden to own "military calibers".


.38 Super is IDENTICAL to .38 Auto, except it's much more powerful. If you are really, really stupid, and want to injure yourself and destroy an old gun, you could fire a .38 Super round in an old .38 Auto pistol, but it would be very unwise and unsafe and truly stupid. The point is they are identical except for the power level.

You could change your quotes of the original if you like.



By the way, there is old, bad misinformation about Spanish pistols chambered in 9mm Largo that has been drifting around for 60 years and more.

The misinformation is that 9mm Largo pistols, such as the Star and Astra guns, were designed to use any 9mm round. This is total bullshite.

I believe many people have used .38 ACP in them and gotten away with it. .38 Super should never be used. Apparently either will work in most Largos, though. Note the Astra is a blowback pistol- the breech is not locked. Never use .38 Super in any pistol chambered for 9mm Largo. The correct ammo is readily available nowadays. There is no excuse for using the wrong stuff.

 

[Pinecone]

I don't like to mess with Darwin, but I also don't want to help him out too much.

 

[ENT Shooter]

Very interesting thread. Definitely good info.

 

[Threeband]

I don't like to mess with Darwin, but I also don't want to help him out too much.

Maybe he needs just a little help.


Dumb and Dumber: Study Says Humans Are Slowly Losing Their Smarts

 

[Cochise]

38 auto is 38 acp. The acp stand for "Colt Automatic Pistol"
I dont think anyone other than Colt loaded 38 ACP but but other manufacturers didnt like using the acp designatin on their pistols.
Colt & Smith as well as Winchester and Remington did this back in the day using their name as part of the caliber designation.
If you still need data I have manuals dating back to the late 20's many of the older powders are gone but Bullseye is still the same.

 

[cbrenner]

Thanks for all the info. I have the 8th edition Hornady. I must have missed it. I am loading for a couple of Colt 1903's I have. I would like to see how they shoot. I want to get them checked out first though.

 

[cbrenner]

38 auto is 38 acp. The acp stand for "Colt Automatic Pistol"
I dont think anyone other than Colt loaded 38 ACP but but other manufacturers didnt like using the acp designatin on their pistols.
Colt & Smith as well as Winchester and Remington did this back in the day using their name as part of the caliber designation.
If you still need data I have manuals dating back to the late 20's many of the older powders are gone but Bullseye is still the same.

i would like to see the old dat if you don't mind. Thanks.