Any one CC with empty chamber?

[Allan R]

Every refence I see aboutthe "Israeli method" begins with racking a round at presentation. Seems to add about a second to battery.
They know a little about guns.
What are the pros and cons?
Your practice?

 

[AlBeight]

Cons? Death by being late to your own shootout.

My practice? Always one in the chamber.
Why? Because I can’t put two in the chamber.

 

[Harrys]

An empty chamber is like shooting blanks.

 

[308Scout]

 

[welder516]

If you want the lesser chance then that would be a great way to carry.

What kind of flowers do you like

 

[joppaj]

Hello and welcome to the board. I can tell you that we toss this around every few months and it's universally considered a bad idea.

 

[wilcam47]

This^^^

 

[small shot]

One in the chamber. I don't fault anyone for feeling uneasy about that though. Weigh the risk for yourself.

I carried a dummy round/snap cap in mine for a month before I felt comfortable.

 

[owldo]

A second to rack could seem like an awfully long time when you see a gun or any weapon being pulled on you .. In a scenario when seconds count I don't want to waste one !

 

[swinokur]

Please remove your spare tire and all fire extinguishers in your house.

You will not need them.

 

[fishoholic]

Carrying without one in the pipe is the same as not carrying at all .

Just my 2 cents.

 

[AlBeight]

Watch this video and tell us how many seconds head start you’re willing to give to an assailant? Thankfully this couple didn’t get shot, as this dickhead apparently wasn’t intent on murdering anyone that day. THAT DAY.

 

[Dirty_Civilian]

No

 

[Bullfrog]

Please remove your spare tire and all fire extinguishers in your house.

You will not need them.

You can take your spare tire with you, but you won't have any air in it.

Ditto for the fire extinguisher, you can keep one with an empty cannister.

 

[TheOriginalMexicanBob]

Kinda like carrying a SAA revolver with a live round under the hammer but the next chamber empty.

 

[Twist]

When I first started carrying my P365 (first striker fired handgun) I carried an empty chamber and practiced my draw stroke, racking it, and putting rounds on target. About 1 time in 20 or so I would fail to rack the slide with enough force and get a jam that would result in a tap/rack recovery. I decided that was not reliable enough for me to respond. I swapped out the grip module for a Wilson Combat version that had the cutout for a manual safety and installed the manual safety parts from Sig.

Yeah, I know that opens up a whole 'nuther debate about manual safeties but for me it was a solution that left me feeling safe carrying one in the chamber. For perspective, I'm a life long 1911 owner so my muscle memory is to take the safety off as my finger is going on the trigger and is nothing I ever have to think about. I continue to practice my draw stroke at home with snap caps with my P365/manual safety firearm.

 

[hogarth]

One of the reasons I cofounded a blog was so I wouldn't have to type up new answers to the same old questions:

One in the Pipe?

I can’t believe I even feel compelled to write an article on this topic. Yet again, however, the “gun” webpages have worked their magic on my usually patient mind. In a one-week span, I saw several…

civiliangunfighter.wordpress.com

 

[TheOriginalMexicanBob]

I get safety is paramount...but carrying with an empty chamber is effectively not carrying at all. If you're not carrying with a loaded chamber you should stick to a double-action revolver.

 

[Bullfrog]

Every refence I see aboutthe "Israeli method" begins with racking a round at presentation. Seems to add about a second to battery.

They know a little about guns.

Nope... the prevailing theory is that the Israeli carry method was adopted by Israeli forces early on because they didn't know enough about the guns they were going to carry.

Specifically, in the early days Israeli forces carried whatever they could get... revolvers, 1911's, Lugers, High Powers, etc. Empty chamber was a response to needing to train a standard carry method for a variety of firearm types. A catch-all solution to non standard and in some cases worn out surplus firearms.

What are the pros and cons?
Your practice?

In addition to all of the comments about time, you have to consider that you may be warding off an attacker with one hand while drawing with the other. How will you chamber a round?

The Theory And Practice Of Israeli Carry

Let's look at what Israeli Carry is, why it was originally taught to special forces and why many instructors consider the practice outdated today.

www.ammoman.com

The first theory is that they adopted this technique for safety reasons. For the first few years of the IDF’s existence, its equipment was mainly cast-off equipment from both sides of WWII. This led to the IDF having to integrate a wide variety of pistols into service. This, in turn, led to having to train troops how to use different pistols. These pistols may not always employ the same method of operation. Instructors believed standardizing on Condition Three carry was one way for the IDF to eliminate the confusion of training for various safeties and firearms functionality.

The second theory behind the origin of Israeli carry is related to the guns that the IDF inherited from the combatants of WWII. For the first few years of its existence, the IDF did not have state of the art equipment. Rather, it used the gear that everyone else had declared surplus, and some of it was probably in questionable condition. If you’re not sure that the safety on your pistol actually works, (and there are no other pistols to be had at that moment), Condition Three carry makes a lot of sense. The theory is that the IDF started out with Condition Three carry for safety’s sake. Now, bureaucratic inertia keeps it going to this day.

After researching for this article, I think there might be a third reason why Israeli carry came to be. I mentioned Skyes and Fairbairn’s ground-breaking work with the Shanghai police force. However, their work during World War II also had a lasting impression on firearms training. Their ideas and training methodology were used by the Allies’ elite commando groups, so much so that the fighting knife they designed, the Sykes-Fairbairn dagger, has become the symbol of elite units on both sides of the Atlantic. Their training included the idea that they carry a semi-automatic pistol in Condition Three. Experts considered this the best training available at the time. As such, it made sense that the newly-formed nation of Israel would look to their techniques to form the basis of their new military. They continue to teach many of those techniques to this day.

These are out-of-date techniques that, quite frankly, we shouldn’t use anymore.

 

[fishgutzy]

Any handgun that can not be safely carried chambered is not a carry handgun.

Me. Chambered, no thumb safety.

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