AR Pistol Rules

[GunnyHwy]

Hey Folks,
I am in need of the collective wisdom.
Can I build an AR pistol with a pre-10/1/13 AR receiver? Should the receiver be marked as "pistol"?
Any MD or Fed rules that I would need to be aware of if I were to do this?
Thanks!

 

[Sticky]

As long as the lower was never built into a rifle configuration and it was transferred as 'other' and not 'rifle', then it doesn't matter if it is pre 10/1 or not, you can legally build it into an AR pistol. Only thing you really can't do is to add a vertical forward grip or shoulderable stock of any type.

Most will use a pistol buffer tube that will not even accept a carbine or rifle stock, to prevent the possibility of 'constructive intent', should you also own a carbine stock, or have a loose one about..

 

[Vile Shadow]

Speaking of "constructive intent", what are the chances of that ever being applied to those sig brace things, since theoretically they can still be shouldered?

 

[stu929]

Aft says good to go

 

[Sticky]

Yep, the Sig Brace comes with a letter of approval from the BATF and there is also a BATF ruling that I carry a printed copy of that says 'shouldering' it does not defy any laws.

 

[dontpanic]

You can add a vertical grip if OAL is >26"

 

[ziptiespec]

Just some food for thought: Pre 10/13 lowers can be built into evil machines of death. I.e., non-HBAR rifles. The lowers you buy now can only be built into pretty, non-evil, cuddly pistols and HBARS. And maybe SBRs, I haven't been following the ruling on that.

With the glut of reasonably-priced lowers lately, I've relegated all my pre-10/13 lowers for evil and have been buying new lowers for good.

 

[stu929]

Im thinking I need to get a sig brace before they revise that decision so I said letter in hand before I build my pistol.

 

[MKR03]

Here's the ATF response to the shouldering question: http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/216207869. Physical characteristics are what matter; how you hold the weapon doesn't change it's classification. Wouldn't it be nice if MSP gave black and white answers like this?

 

[DaemonAssassin]

Here's the ATF response to the shouldering question: http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/216207869. Physical characteristics are what matter; how you hold the weapon doesn't change it's classification. Wouldn't it be nice if MSP gave black and white answers like this?

 

[Pinecone]

Just some food for thought: Pre 10/13 lowers can be built into evil machines of death. I.e., non-HBAR rifles. The lowers you buy now can only be built into pretty, non-evil, cuddly pistols and HBARS. And maybe SBRs, I haven't been following the ruling on that.

With the glut of reasonably-priced lowers lately, I've relegated all my pre-10/13 lowers for evil and have been buying new lowers for good.

This is not clear.

MSP has responded recently that either 1) It is OK or 2) that there is not official guidance at this time. #2 is leading 2 to 1 on known recent responses. I have heard of 2 other #1 responses, but do not know when they are from. MSP has changed their minds on many things (see stripped lowers) over the past year or so.

IF you put a banned configuration upper on the lower prior to Oct 1, 2013, you possessed a rifle in a now banned configuration prior to the ban and should be able to legally return it to that configuration.

 

[swinokur]

SBR's on post 10-1 lower are ok as long as they are not copycats as defined by FSA2013 according to MSP's last missive. Engage Armament is fighting this rule in court, but no outcome yet.

ie <29" OAL and does not have 2 copycat features (flash hider and folding stock)

 

[thai]

As long as the lower was never built into a rifle configuration and it was transferred as 'other' and not 'rifle', then it doesn't matter if it is pre 10/1 or not, you can legally build it into an AR pistol. Only thing you really can't do is to add a vertical forward grip or shoulderable stock of any type.

Most will use a pistol buffer tube that will not even accept a carbine or rifle stock, to prevent the possibility of 'constructive intent', should you also own a carbine stock, or have a loose one about..

I never knew that it is not legal if the lower was previously built as a rifle or was transferred as a "rifle". What is the justification of this?

 

[Sticky]

I never knew that it is not legal if the lower was previously built as a rifle or was transferred as a "rifle". What is the justification of this?

You cannot convert a rifle to a pistol by federal law, but.... if you first build the lower into a pistol configuration, you can later swap it back and forth from pistol to rifle and even back to pistol again, as long as it started out as a pistol.

 

[swinokur]

BATF letter

 

[pilotguy299]

SBR's on post 10-1 lower are ok as long as they are not copycats as defined by FSA2013 according to MSP's last missive. Engage Armament is fighting this rule in court, but no outcome yet.

ie <29" OAL and does not have 2 copycat features (flash hider and folding stock)

Is that accurate? Looking at the MDSP web site:

https://www.mdsp.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=c22eQr9bA5E=&tabid=961&mid=2764

(e) (1) “Copycat weapon” means:
(i) a semiautomatic centerfire rifle that can accept a detachable magazine and has any two of the following:
1. a folding stock;
2. a grenade launcher or flare launcher; or
3. a flash suppressor;
(ii) a semiautomatic centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds;
(iii) a semiautomatic centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 29 inches;
(iv) a semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds;
(v) a semiautomatic shotgun that has a folding stock; or
(vi) a shotgun with a revolving cylinder.


To me it reads as an "or". That a semiautomatic rifle has to have a detachable magazine and any of the two features, "or" be under 29" to be considered a copycat.

 

[swinokur]

you are correct. My mistake.

 

[Indiana Jones]

As long as the lower was never built into a rifle configuration and it was transferred as 'other' and not 'rifle', then it doesn't matter if it is pre 10/1 or not, you can legally build it into an AR pistol. Only thing you really can't do is to add a vertical forward grip or shoulderable stock of any type.

Most will use a pistol buffer tube that will not even accept a carbine or rifle stock, to prevent the possibility of 'constructive intent', should you also own a carbine stock, or have a loose one about..

Not entirely true. Don't forget about the shoulderable SB15 brace. Key is a pistol tube, not one for a rifle.


Edit: didnt see your clarification below. Cheers

 

[Sticky]

Not entirely true. Don't forget about the shoulderable SB15 brace. Key is a pistol tube, not one for a rifle.


Edit: didnt see your clarification below. Cheers

No foul.. lol

I was being general and yes, the sig brace is an option (a good one) for a pistol, but.... technically it is not a shoulderable stock, per the ATF, thus it is skirting the rule if used 'as it was not intended', so I was sorta correct.. lol

FWIW, I have two AR weapons that are presently configured with Sig Braces and vfg, both over 26"oal. Great configuration if you don't mind wielding a long pistol.. lol

 

[Indiana Jones]

No foul.. lol

I was being general and yes, the sig brace is an option (a good one) for a pistol, but.... technically it is not a shoulderable stock, per the ATF, thus it is skirting the rule if used 'as it was not intended', so I was sorta correct.. lol

FWIW, I have two AR weapons that are presently configured with Sig Braces and vfg, both over 26"oal. Great configuration if you don't mind wielding a long pistol.. lol

I cant wait til I finish my my 10.5 Mk18 Mod 0. Colorado prohibits loaded rifles in vehicles due to poaching concerns but this pistol will fall into the "extension of home" laws, and be covered by my CCW. So my truck gun will be an AR.