AR type 308

[kenpo333]

You're missing my point. People on the internet make outrageous claims about accuracy that are not even remotely repeatable. I don't really doubt that you can buy sub-MOA guns at a reasonable price these days, but that's a far cry from the half-MOA stories I hear bandied about like candy on certain forums.[/QUOTt


I do see your point. I get to shoot several times a week but you do hear some stories some time. I was at a long distance range a couple of weeks ago and a gun told me he has shoot a deer at 693 yard. I hope he had a range finder out. To me ethically that would be a shot that I would give up due to the distance and not wanting to just wound the animal.

 

[DarrellA]

The sub MOA's in this thread - are they 3 shot or 5 shot groups? And, are you shooting sub MOA consistently or is it something that happens when all the stars align properly?

I've read so much on 3 shot vs 5 shot, CEP, extreme spread shots, etc. etc. that I'm wondering what's what.

 

[ROBAR35]

You're missing my point. People on the internet make outrageous claims about accuracy that are not even remotely repeatable. I don't really doubt that you can buy sub-MOA guns at a reasonable price these days, but that's a far cry from the half-MOA stories I hear bandied about like candy on certain forums.

TacOps Rifles .25 accuracy guarantee with factory ammo.

 

[lsw]

I love accuracy threads. Everybody's gun shoots .25 MOA out of the box with factory ammo.

Mine always does... On one-shot groups.

 

[edrod68]

The sub MOA's in this thread - are they 3 shot or 5 shot groups? And, are you shooting sub MOA consistently or is it something that happens when all the stars align properly?

I've read so much on 3 shot vs 5 shot, CEP, extreme spread shots, etc. etc. that I'm wondering what's what.

Shoot 5 shot groups minimum....especially when working up handloads...have shot 10 shot groups with handloads consistently from .5-.75 moa at 100 with my 168gr handloads out of my 22" precision AR10

 

[trbon8r]

I love accuracy threads. Everybody's gun shoots .25 MOA out of the box with factory ammo.

Pretty much. Internet threads like this are pointless since the validity of which is the equivalent of asking a bunch of fat old married men how long they could last with a Playboy model. All that will ensue with a question like this is a bunch of chest beating with little substantive information. Notice how many of the .5 MOA claims never say whether it was a 3 or 5 shot group?

The Army M110 is known to be around a 1 MOA gun. That is damn good out of a semi auto rifle. Some are a little better and some are no better.

 

[Magnumite]

I take the responses in relative terms. We've all probably shot memorable groups. If a particular gun gets positive evals from posters who seem to have regular long gun experience I give that model consideration. In no way do I expect .300" groups. Mag interchangability and technical info I appreciate so I can make an informed decision. In my years of reading, consistent on demand .25" groups at 100 yards is bench rest and extreme accuracy rifle and tuned loads territory. That won't be my rifle, I don't have extreme long distance long gun experience so those guns would be wasted $$$$ for me. As far as the platform I made an inquirie in the IP forum for two beginner DPMS guns, LR-308 and Tac20, both 18"-20" barrels with mid and rifle length gas systems. I have looked at parts available to consider building one. Looking at other makers as well.

I have an R5 bolt gun and it shoots very well. I typically can get good groups out of it and typically use factory RP CorLokt, which it likes. Handloading for 308 is around the corner. I've found the action screw torque value where the rifle shoots best. Off the bench and prone, bi pod only, I can keep groups around an inch, sometimes less, if I do my job. So I have a small clue with the long guns. If I can get an AR 308 gun to consistently shoot close to an inch, I'd be happy. I want to stay with a 20" barrel, 18" tolerable, since it is an action game gun. If experienced match or otherwise learned individuals experienced with the platform attest to the longer tube being usable, then I'll consider it.

 

[Pinecone]

Shoot 5 shot groups minimum....especially when working up handloads...have shot 10 shot groups with handloads consistently from .5-.75 moa at 100 with my 168gr handloads out of my 22" precision AR10

OCW method only requires 3 shots with each charge increment.

Because you are not looking group size, you are looking at a few increments with the CENTER of each group is in the same place from the point of aim.

 

[Sticky]

My biggest suggestions are to stay away from carbine length gas systems, get one that takes DPMS/SR25 type magazines (This means it accepts the 308PMAG, which increases reliability), and get a click adjustable gas block so the gun can be tuned to your load!

Agree with all of this advice. I built two, one long range, JP 22" match barrel and comp, the second a more 'tactical' 18" bbl'd 308. Both are built on DPMS styled lowers, use all DPMS style parts (bbl, bcg, upper, lower and mags), both shoot MOA all day long with handloads.

The 18" would be my choice for 3 gun.. getting much longer adds some, but takes away what I call 'wieldability', which is why I built the second one with an 18" standard, vs the 22" match bbl.

 

[Magnumite]

That wieldability, nicely put by the way, is one aspect I am wanting to maintain. I can feel the difference between an M4 a 20" HBAR in 5.56. I can imagine the difference in the larger 308 platform with 18" to 24" differences. Input such as yours helps in that area - you've experienced it.

16" loses ballistics and produces a hefty flash, the 18" and 20" calm some of that. I take what E. Shells advises under high advisement. No substitute for experience and knowledge. Hence my consideration of 18" and 20" barrels.

 

[byf43]

OP, pardon the hijack, but, Chad, is there a 'list' somewhere of what AR-308 rifles take the DPMS/SR25 magazines???????

I'm interested (in the semi-near future) in buying one of these rifles.


Thanks!

I have not seen one, but it may be out there. Most manufacturers offer the DPMS/SR25 Magazine option. Even Armalite does on, I believe it's the A4 models???

The non standardization of .308 AR's is one thing I despise about the platform. Some uppers won't fit on some lowers, some guns take the AR10 bolt, some take the dpms, then there's gas piston .308 ARs. Now DPMS G2 rifles are another different system.

OP, again, pardon the hijack.

I was nosing around, trying to find some info on who uses what magazine, etc., and found this on another site.
I have no idea as to how old or accurate this info is.

(Mods/admins/owner, IF this isn't appropriate, please delete.)

Magazines
There are primarily two magazines styles for the .308 rifles, the original Armalite-Fairchild magazines used in the original AR-10s, then picked up by the KAC SR-25 (henceforth called the SR-25 Type) and the Modern Armalite AR-10 type which is a modified M-14 magazine. It should be pointed out RRA (and formerly Bushmaster) make rifles that use FAL magazines, and CMMG has a lower which uses G3 magazines.

Armalite AR-10 type (used by Armalite, Noveske, Eagle Arms, Georgia Precision; capacities: 5, 10, 20, 25)

SR-25 Type (used by DPMS, KAC, LaRue, POF, LWRC, JP Rifles, 1950s Armalites, Remington, Fulton-Armory; capacities: 4, 10, 19, 20)

FAL Magazines (Metric or Inch pattern; used by Bushmaster, RRA; capacities: 5, 10, 20, 30)

G3 Magazines (CMMG .308 Lower)




Magazine Manufacturers
C-Products (SR-25 type; 19 rounds)

Armalite (Armalite Type; 5, 10, 20, 25 rounds)

Magpul (SR-25 Type 10, 20, 25 rounds)

POF ( SR-25 Type; 25 round

Now, the $32.50 question is..... which style, Armalite AR-10, or SR-25, are more readily available????

 

[Magnumite]

No problem, not a hijack. Good info.

 

[trbon8r]

I was just talking to one of the guys at work that gets paid to burn up lots of government ammo in an SR25. I told him about this thread and he laughed. He tells me the average gun shoots around an inch, sometimes worse, sometimes maybe a shade better using match ammo. That's about all anyone should expect out of an accurized semi auto .308. In other words the same as an antiquated POS M14.

 

[byf43]

I was just talking to one of the guys at work that gets paid to burn up lots of government ammo in an SR25. I told him about this thread and he laughed. He tells me the average gun shoots around an inch, sometimes worse, sometimes maybe a shade better using match ammo. That's about all anyone should expect out of an accurized semi auto .308. In other words the same as an antiquated POS M14.

M1A groups, after $5,000 in accurizing.......



Granted, this was several years ago, when my eyesight was a LOT better than it is, now.

 

[pilotguy299]

I had a rock river lar-8 with a 16" barrel and could never get a decent group at 100 yards or farther, even using match grade ammo. RRA says it's capable of 1.5moa at 100 yards, but I never got that close. Groups were easily 2 to 3 times larger than when I used my bolt gun with the same ammunition.

May have been more me than the gun, but either way I wasn't comfortable enough to depend on it. Especially with the non-standard magazine release.

 

[SgtKope]

TacOps Rifles .25 accuracy guarantee with factory ammo.

Do they make an AR10?