Baker v Kealoha ~ Hawaii Right to Carry

[parksd70]

I think our chances are actually quite decent, the makeup of the panel and the oral arguments gives me hope.
I'm actually concerned that even with a win we may get pulled into en banc and have it ripped away.

Sucks the way CA9 works with en banc. If we do win, I guess that it would at least create a much clearer split. If that happens before Drake makes it to conference, maybe, just maybe, SCOTUS would hear Drake.

If Baker is a win and that comes before Drake goes before SCOTUS, then SCOTUS denies Drake, I feel like that would be a kiss of death. Unless, of course, they planned to appeal Baker (or one of the others) and SCOTUS wanted to hear that.

 

[parksd70]

It was argued in December along with Richards and Peruta, could be anywhere from one month to thirteen months based on what I've heard of the 9th's current productivity.

Oh...and does this mean 1-13 months from today???

If so...really?? That's crazy...

 

[Kharn]

Correct, from today. The 9th takes from 11 to 23 months for most rulings.

 

[parksd70]

Wow......you have to be kidding!! That is ridiculous! Oh well....

 

[Funtimes]

Oh...and does this mean 1-13 months from today???

If so...really?? That's crazy...

Average opinion I believe was 18 months after oral arguments, which would put us at summer of next year.

 

[kenpo333]

It may even be worse than NJ. From what I can gather there may be something like a dozen CCWs there TOPS. I also had read that the CCWs are only good for the county you're in-so you'd need several CCWs just to cover the entire state. It would seem HI is way behind the curve when it comes to pre-emption laws.

In Hawaii each island is a county. So Maui is one county and The Big Island is another county. I've lived there a part of the years but about 15 years. I've never met anyone who has a ccw. Gun wise it is worse than Maryland. I am a freeking idiot to live in two states with the some of the worse gun laws.

 

[wolfwood]

bb

In Hawaii each island is a county. So Maui is one county and The Big Island is another county. I've lived there a part of the years but about 15 years. I've never met anyone who has a ccw. Gun wise it is worse than Maryland. I am a freeking idiot to live in two states with the some of the worse gun laws.

Just to clarify that point, there are four issuing Counties. Kauai, Maui, Big Island, Oahu. The smaller islands are not Counties e.g. Lanai is actually part of Maui County. I have a few friends there. However while most of Molokai is part of Maui a small part of it is a separate County. While no one actually is issued a CCW in Hawaii, in theory members of Kalawao County would get one from Maui County Chief. The other small islands are part of the various four counties islands e.g. Kauai County is actually three islands.

 

[Bob A]

So Larry Ellison, the Oracle guy, owns 141 sq miles of Lanai. Think he can get a permit?

 

[wolfwood]

That's my point Lanai is part of Maui County so he'd have to go through the Maui Chief. Personally I'd like to see Hawaii give back that land to the locals. Its a shame that the only local owned property is the houses in the small town.


If you want a rush try Warrior's/Kahekili's Leap I personally can tell you it makes you feel alive. Then swim to the rock directly in front of it. Its a great workout as well.
http://www.to-hawaii.com/lanai/attractions/kahekilisleap.php

 

[krucam]

Bump & reminder of the existing Baker thread. 2 weeks?....

 

[Al Norris]

Given the order calling for further briefing in Peruta, I don't think we will be seeing anything in Baker, just yet.

 

[ryan_j]

Given the order calling for further briefing in Peruta, I don't think we will be seeing anything in Baker, just yet.

Certainly didn't stop Richards.

 

[esqappellate]

Given the order calling for further briefing in Peruta, I don't think we will be seeing anything in Baker, just yet.

Baker is different than Richards and Peruta. Baker is a challenge to state law as well as to the discretion of the Chief of Police. A different statutory scheme altogether. It is possible to apply Peruta to control the discretion of the Chief of Police, but that Hawaii statute requires more than a vague "good cause" that can be interpreted to include self defense. Rather it provides that the chief of police may issue a carry permit "In an exceptional case, when an applicant shows reason to fear injury to the applicant's person or property" Haw. Rev. Stat. § 134-9 – Licenses to carry. That is a much tougher standard than "good cause." The challenge is to this law, both on its face and on how it is applied. Baker thus presents a case where the statute itself may be struck down.

 

[Peaceful John]

Baker is different than Richards and Peruta. Baker is a challenge to state law as well as to the discretion of the Chief of Police. A different statutory scheme altogether. It is possible to apply Peruta to control the discretion of the Chief of Police, but that Hawaii statute requires more than a vague "good cause" that can be interpreted to include self defense. Rather it provides that the chief of police may issue a carry permit "In an exceptional case, when an applicant shows reason to fear injury to the applicant's person or property" Haw. Rev. Stat. § 134-9 – Licenses to carry. That is a much tougher standard than "good cause." The challenge is to this law, both on its face and on how it is applied. Baker thus presents a case where the statute itself may be struck down.

Promising, isn't it? Should it be struck and appealed, is it possible that Baker might bring nationwide "shall issue"?

 

[Mr H]

Promising, isn't it? Should it be struck and appealed, is it possible that Baker might bring nationwide "shall issue"?

Not to play wet blanket, but...

Woollard was "possible" at one point, too.

Those robes make people do funny things, sometimes...

 

[br3krj]

Not to play wet blanket, but... Woollard was "possible" at one point, too. Those robes make people do funny things, sometimes...

Agreed - I am optimistic but will believe it when I see it. I never thought Wollard would win at the district level and then never thought we would lose at the 4th. Wrong on both occasions. Shows what I know - lol

 

[esqappellate]

Promising, isn't it? Should it be struck and appealed, is it possible that Baker might bring nationwide "shall issue"?

agreed

 

[wolfwood]

I just don't see them filing for a writ. The AG's is still a party so they could file it. They have been getting pressure to work recently. As theyThe County just does not have the desire to take this to that level.

 

[esqappellate]

I just don't see them filing for a writ. The AG's is still a party so they could file it. They have been getting pressure to work recently. As theyThe County just does not have the desire to take this to that level.

Well, darn. For antis they are sure faint hearted about it.

 

[wolfwood]

Governor Neil Abercrombie used to be a professor. As of his last election he was asked and stood by y his lectures where he argued Native Hawaiians should and had the right to violently resist the "haole" government. Then his AG's office writes a amicus brief (mind in a case they are a named Defendant) that the lower Court generous in a opinon where a retired infrantryman of Hawaiian and Japanese descent had his prayer for relief ignored by an article III judge to dismiss him on a 12b6 without leave to amend. Sorta seems that is evidence of the Second Amendment's modern day propriety and that the Governor might want to arm his students if he wants to give them a shot.

However there is one bastion of civic virtu and right wing zeal. His office resides on Queen street and he makes me look like a moderate. Frankly if SF CC hadn't taken over oral arguments sometimes I think he would have ended up breaking ranks with the City's official line of there is a policy in place to issue permits. It was verbally handed down to the Chief from the last Chief like it always had said the response to the interrogatory from someone in HPD.

The Baker lower court decesion declining to rule on the Second Amendment issues on the 12b6, explicitly stating it ruling there is absolutely no right outside the home and then if we didn't get the point concluded with the Court stating it wished for a higher courts instructions was a very cagey Reagan Appointee saying if this is all the state bar can produce then so be it I'll leave a series o bread crumbs for them to follow. It took me awhile to understand what he'd done.