cheap machineguns for civilians

[midcountyg]

Now that I have your attention with that heading, let's talk about how to make it happen. Most people realize what the Hughe's amendment is, and how it affected the MG availability and pricing. What if I told you the amendment was never really voted in? Check youtube for the vote on Hughes amendment. Watch carefully and decide for yourself. Also are other points. The Hughes amendment is also unconstitutional. It has been proven in courts that the second amendment protects our rights to 'military type' firearms that would be used by a militia. In one case a federal court prosecuted a man for having a sbs. His defense was that it was a military type firearm, and therefore protected by the second amendment. They found him guilty as charged, but said the reason was it was not a specific 'military type' firearm and therefore not protected by the second amendment. They did how ever indicate military weapons are protected by the constitution. The Hughes amendment is a prohibition on firearms that, under the constitution, the government can't deny us. Further more, the Hughes amendment is a ban on firearms based soley on manufacture date. Why can an individual own a '85 M16 but not the exact same model made in '87? That makes it rather sensless. And let us not forget, this is the governments way to get to a total ban of MGs. Every year MG's are lost in fires, stolen, or just plain damaged. Eventually, although quite a while, there will be only small numbers left available. At that point only multi millionaires will be able to afford them.
So now what to do? I certainly don't have all the answers, but I do know it will take large numbers of percistent people. We need to band together as firearm enthusiasts and patriots, to support our sport and more importantly our constitutional rights. I know a lot of people will say ' I would love to see it, but it will never happen.' But if those same people would become part of the solution, and not part of the problem, we would have that much more support. The problem is people in our sport have taken to passive of a stance and have sat back and watched the government dictate our lives. We have numbers, but we have to stand up and not just let the liberals go unopposed.
Sorry if I am ranting here, but I feel very strongly about this and after the work week I have had I needed to vent a bit to And I am appologizing for my long winded post and possible incorrect wording, but not for how I feel on the topic.

 

[Numidian]

You wanna know who is the most against repealing the Hughes Amendment? Private citizens who already have machine guns.... Every dude who has dropped $10,000 on an M-16 absolutely cries himself to sleep at night thinking about the availability of $1,000 machine guns for the general public.

That said, I'm all for it! Bring on the machine guns!

And there is this petition if people want to try and draw some attention https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitio...repeal-hughes-amendment-fopa-and-nfa/FWXhjh9s

 

[hairba111]

I just want my M14 back.

 

[midcountyg]

You wanna know who is the most against repealing the Hughes Amendment? Private citizens who already have machine guns.... Every dude who has dropped $10,000 on an M-16 absolutely cries himself to sleep at night thinking about the availability of $1,000 machine guns for the general public.

That said, I'm all for it! Bring on the machine guns!

And there is this petition if people want to try and draw some attention https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitio...repeal-hughes-amendment-fopa-and-nfa/FWXhjh9s

I know several people who have laid out large amounts of money collecting very expensive MG's, and they unanimously have said they would take the financial hit to be able to buy new MG's.

 

[Atlasarmory]

You wanna know who is the most against repealing the Hughes Amendment? Private citizens who already have machine guns.... Every dude who has dropped $10,000 on an M-16 absolutely cries himself to sleep at night thinking about the availability of $1,000 machine guns for the general public.

That said, I'm all for it! Bring on the machine guns!

And there is this petition if people want to try and draw some attention https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitio...repeal-hughes-amendment-fopa-and-nfa/FWXhjh9s

The government should be forced to buy them back from the owners at the inflated prices they created by passing the law in the first place

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Yeah heard it many times and it will not be the last. Keep dreaming.

Given people today, ask yourself what is more likely? A total ban on all MGs in private hands or the end of the NFA or 86 ban?

The Heller case was also not really a good thing for us either. MGs were used an example were the law may be legal... read heller and you will see.

I have money tied up in MGs but the being able to convert/buy new ones would well be worth it.

 

[mikec]

It would be nice to be able to buy a new machine gun. I was living in NY at the time this all came down. NY prohibits NFA otherwise I would have gladly gone into debt to buy a few RDIAS.

Further more, the Hughes amendment is a ban on firearms based soley on manufacture date. Why can an individual own a '85 M16 but not the exact same model made in '87? That makes it rather sensless.

We can ask the same about MD's handgun approved list. A Jennings POS handgun made in 1983 is legal, but the same gun made in 1985 is not allowed??

Let's look at some states and their evil assault weapons bans. In CA, if you owned a AR15 with all the evil features and registered it before a cutoff in 2000, it is legal. If you try to move to CA with the same make/model, it is illegal.

 

[Inigoes]

Given people today, ask yourself what is more likely? A total ban on all MGs in private hands or the end of the NFA or 86 ban?

The NFA was upheld by the SCOTUS as constitutional in Haynes (1968), IIRC.

Now using the Heller definitions of the Second Amendment, a manufacturer (*cough* Midcounty *cough* ) could say that the Hughes Amendment portion of the FOPA is restricting commerce of a new firearm, he designed.

Just a thought...

 

[midcountyg]

Here is my idea to start the fight against the Hughes amendment. Someone, who has always maintained a good standing with the law, will need to file a Form 1 to construct a modern machinegun. For reason, put Constitutional right. They will ofcourse deny the application on the basis of the Hughe's amendment. At that point it can be taken to the court system. The battle will never be won through the legislative system due to all the liberals in office. The judiciary system will have to prove the Hughe's amendment is constitutional and therefore legal. There is a lot of ammo out there to fight this, but it will take a large number of people voicing support of our fight. It will need to be in mainstream media, and a big enough deal to make law makers very nervous. It will also take good lwayers willing to devot a lot of time to a very difficult battle. Any volunteers?

 

[jimbobborg]

Here is my idea to start the fight against the Hughes amendment. Someone, who has always maintained a good standing with the law, will need to file a Form 1 to construct a modern machinegun. For reason, put Constitutional right. They will ofcourse deny the application on the basis of the Hughe's amendment. At that point it can be taken to the court system. The battle will never be won through the legislative system due to all the liberals in office. The judiciary system will have to prove the Hughe's amendment is constitutional and therefore legal. There is a lot of ammo out there to fight this, but it will take a large number of people voicing support of our fight. It will need to be in mainstream media, and a big enough deal to make law makers very nervous. It will also take good lwayers willing to devot a lot of time to a very difficult battle. Any volunteers?

I see you've raised your hand there, midcounty!

 

[WeaponsCollector]

There's got to be a way to get them from the ATF/DOJ like gangs and cartels do.....
But I really think if I spent a very large amount of money on machine guns I'd want to protect my investment by keeping the prices high.
I don't own any full autos but if I got 2 Tommy guns for $50,000 then all of a sudden they're only worth $10,000 thanks to new legislation I wouldn't be happy taking that kind of a loss even if it means more gun rights. $40,000 is a lot of money to lose on just two guns and I'm sure many collectors have way more than that tied up in their collections.

 

[Inigoes]

Once the 2A is found as a right outside the home, it would be a logical next step to attack the hughes amendment using the equal protection clause.

 

[midcountyg]

I see you've raised your hand there, midcounty!

It won't do any good for me to file the form 1, as I am already allowed under my license to manufacture a new MG as a post 86 sample. I will help in any way I can though.

 

[Sergeant Rock]

I'm all for it, hell I carry one everyday but cant take it home :/

 

[SkunkWerX]

Once the 2A is found as a right outside the home, it would be a logical next step to attack the hughes amendment using the equal protection clause.

^This is truth^

One step at a time. it just takes so looooooong....

 

[erwos]

I don't own any full autos but if I got 2 Tommy guns for $50,000 then all of a sudden they're only worth $10,000 thanks to new legislation I wouldn't be happy taking that kind of a loss even if it means more gun rights. $40,000 is a lot of money to lose on just two guns and I'm sure many collectors have way more than that tied up in their collections.

This is a risk that people investing in full auto guns know they're taking. If they don't, well, it's their own damn fault for not thinking through the risks associated with ANY investment. I refuse to buy anything more than an M11, because the chance of MGs coming back is non-trivial.

Personally, I think we will see newly registered MGs available for civilians again in my lifetime, but I also suspect that it may be temporary, it may be annoying, and it may be expensive.

 

[BenL]

Personally, I think we will see newly registered MGs available for civilians again in my lifetime, but I also suspect that it may be temporary, it may be annoying, and it may be expensive.

Ebb and flow. Right now, gun owners' rights are flying high and we're all getting happier by the moment. In the 1990's, not so much, and 20 years from now, who knows? I'd be awfully surprised to see MGs come back to civilians in my lifetime, if at all. Don't get me wrong- I think if it ever did happen, it would be like it was when the AWB sunset. Within a few years, the AR platform become the dominant form of rifle.

I think new machine gun sales will come back as soon as you can buy guns at the hardware store, again (my Dad's first gun came from the local five and dime, between the Twizzlers and the shovels.)

 

[Inigoes]

A glimmer of hope

That would be a
startling reading of the opinion, since it would mean that
the National Firearms Act’s restrictions on machineguns
(not challenged in Miller) might be unconstitutional,
machineguns being useful in warfare in 1939. We think
that Miller’s “ordinary military equipment” language must
be read in tandem with what comes after: “[O]rdinarily
when called for [militia] service [able-bodied] men were
expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves
and of the kind in common use at the time.” 307 U. S., at
179.

http://www.scotusblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/07-290.pdf

 

[Abacab]

Not that this changes a damn thing, but I decided to go to law school because of the unconstitutional tax collection ban on new machine guns.

 

[honda53s]

if someone pays my way i would file a form 1