Cheating instructors.

[esqappellate]

We have heard that there may be instructors who are cheating on doing all the requirements for the carry permit. This will badly backfire in the General Assembly and must stop. If folks know of such instructors please PM me.

Edit: No one at MSI will be reporting anything to the MSP. A word to the wise that MSP is taking this seriously seems appropriate. Otherwise other instructors and students will end up paying a price after the GA is done with us this next session. MSI has enough on its plate without having to deal with the fallout of instructors who don't want to play by the rules.

 

[ICW2019]

I know of at least two on the radar of MSP on the eastern shore and one already has been hit.

 

[Blaster229]

I know of at least two on the radar of MSP on the eastern shore and one already has been hit.

What do you mean by "hit"?

 

[ICW2019]

What do you mean by "hit"?

MSP will reprimand the instructor on a first offense by affirming the course length and content requirements. Continued deviation I've heard they'll suspend the license for a year or indefinitely.

 

[Blkhawk870]

If MSP were to pull an instructor's license, does that affect the individuals that took those classes for their permit?

 

[ICW2019]

If MSP were to pull an instructor's license, does that affect the individuals that took those classes for their permit?

That instructor could have hundreds of applicants under his license by then. I highly doubt it to be honest.

 

[smkranz]

Just curious whether there is any MSP guidance for when an instructor covers the required material in less than two 8-hour days? And what about lunch breaks... travel time from classroom to the range. Differentials in class sizes can also make a difference in how quickly the material is covered, answering questions, etc.

 

[Allen65]

That instructor could have hundreds of applicants under his license by then. I highly doubt it to be honest.

It wouldn't be that hard for MSP to revoke, or at least suspend pending investigation, every permit issued as a result of that instructor's certification, because they may have been issued using fraudulent documentation.

For those suspended, it would probably be easier to just re-take the training elsewhere rather than wait the indefinite amount of time it would take MSP to get around to each individual case. That's the way bureaucracies work, turn the process into a punishment to force compliance.

 

[Alan3413]

And I thought Ashley Madison started a new service.

 

[gtodave]

What is the supposed "cheating"? Not doing the full 16 hours?

 

[hogarth]

If MSP were to pull an instructor's license, does that affect the individuals that took those classes for their permit?

And this is why they'll never get "outed".

 

[daggo66]

Just curious whether there is any MSP guidance for when an instructor covers the required material in less than two 8-hour days? And what about lunch breaks... travel time from classroom to the range. Differentials in class sizes can also make a difference in how quickly the material is covered, answering questions, etc.

My first instructor explained that the material is designed for 2 - 8 hour classes. Actual classroom time can be different depending on class size and knowledge levels. A larger class will obviously take longer on the range. Think of car repair. A particular repair will take X amount of time according to “the book” and you are charged accordingly even if the repair is done in less than the “required” time.

 

[jc1240]

What is the supposed "cheating"? Not doing the full 16 hours?

Most likely. I don't have a name, but I heard of one doing only 4 hours for friends and family. I said something to the person telling me about it that it sounds more like the HQL course. His reply was "nope, the carry class." This person and I are staying well clear of that guy; taking our class at Guntry.

 

[bratgirllcp]

SMH

 

[lx1x]

What is the supposed "cheating"? Not doing the full 16 hours?

Yup.. one got busted doing so. "Selling" training certs is another.

Will edit when I find/remember the news I've seen.


Found it..

Baltimore County Police Officer Facing Federal Indictment for Allegedly Seeking and Accepting Bribes in Exchange for Falsely Certifying the Completion of Firearms Training Required to Obtain a Handgun

A federal grand jury today returned an indictment charging William R. Johnson, Jr., age 32, of Baltimore, Maryland, for a federal charge of honest services wire fraud, for allegedly seeking and accepting bribes and kickback to falsely certify that applicants for Maryland handgun qualifying...

www.justice.gov

 

[daggo66]

Most likely. I don't have a name, but I heard of one doing only 4 hours for friends and family. I said something to the person telling me about it that it sounds more like the HQL course. His reply was "nope, the carry class." This person and I are staying well clear of that guy; taking our class at Guntry.

One on one instruction should definitely take less than 8 hours to cover the required instruction.

 

[85MikeTPI]

Anyone heard of Zoom-only HGP training, with a follow on range certification in-person ?

 

[SigNerd]

Most likely. I don't have a name, but I heard of one doing only 4 hours for friends and family. I said something to the person telling me about it that it sounds more like the HQL course. His reply was "nope, the carry class." This person and I are staying well clear of that guy; taking our class at Guntry.

Probably also includes things like the place I heard about using sims instead of actual live fire. But someone doing 4 of the 16 hours makes me not worry about the whole "it took a couple of hours less to get through 16 hours of material due to class size". The former will definitely be the target of any MSP action.

 

[camo556]

Just curious whether there is any MSP guidance for when an instructor covers the required material in less than two 8-hour days? And what about lunch breaks... travel time from classroom to the range. Differentials in class sizes can also make a difference in how quickly the material is covered, answering questions, etc.

16 hours is the requirement.

It's never been about the material, or training, or safety. If it was, many would be allowed to test out of it (most other shall issue states accept hunter safety certificate). It's about making people sit still as a hurdle.

 

[camo556]

My first instructor explained that the material is designed for 2 - 8 hour classes. Actual classroom time can be different depending on class size and knowledge levels. A larger class will obviously take longer on the range. Think of car repair. A particular repair will take X amount of time according to “the book” and you are charged accordingly even if the repair is done in less than the “required” time.

no. 16 hours.