Correct protocol for receiving already purchased AR lower after 1 Oct

[Blazin]

I hate posting this, but can't seem to find the answer anywhere.

I ordered (and paid for via cedit card) an evil lower last month that I expect to receive after 1 Oct. I forwarded the e-mail receipt to my FFL and he responded with "Ok", so I thought I had enough proof to receive the lower after 1 Oct. But last week I thought I read in a thread here on MDS that you have to get something signed prior to 1 Oct in order to receive an evil lower after 1 Oct. What's the correct protocol? I don't want to miss jumping through a hoop.

 

[paxfish]

But last week I thought I read in a thread here on MDS that you have to get something signed prior to 1 Oct in order to receive an evil lower after 1 Oct.

What is the thread in question?

 

[Blazin]

What is the thread in question?

I could not relocate it, hence me posing this question.

 

[Inigoes]

Your name needs to be on the purchase order/receipt (pre-10/1) for the MSP to honor it.

 

[lx1x]

I could not relocate it, hence me posing this question.

As long you already have paid for it and have a receipt/purchase order. You are good to go.

Handgun is another story.

Does the ffl have the said lower or is it going to be ship to the ffl after Oct 1?

 

[Blazin]

Your name needs to be on the purchase order/receipt (pre-10/1) for the MSP to honor it.

Ok, I have that covered.

 

[Blazin]

Does the ffl have the said lower or is it going to be ship to the ffl after Oct 1?

At this point I suspect it'll ship to the FFL after 1 Oct. It's an Umbrella Corp billet lower. I pre-ordered mine in the first hour the pre-order was open.

 

[lx1x]

At this point I suspect it'll ship to the FFL after 1 Oct. It's an Umbrella Corp billet lower. I pre-ordered mine in the first hour the pre-order was open.

OK.. did you use Boz?

 

[Blazin]

OK.. did you use Boz?

Yup, Boz is my main man.

 

[lx1x]

Yup, Boz is my main man.

. He's buried with paperwork I bet. Haven't seen him lately at the range.

 

[fabsroman]

There is an issue as to whether a dealer can complete a sale/transfer of an assault weapon that is NOT in his possession on October 1, 2013. The AG has been asked for clarification on this, but who knows when we will receive clarification.

Right now, the MSP is saying that if you have a purchase order in place prior to October 1, 2013, you may take possession of it after October 1, 2013. The AG has also said this via a letter opinion. What the AG has not said is that an FFL can transfer an assault weapon after October 1, 2013 that is not in his possession prior to October 1, 2013 when the consumer has a pre-October 1, 2013 purchase order for the assault weapon.

Edit to add: The gist of the matter is that there is nothing in writing (i.e., concrete) that says what is and what is not acceptable for the sale/transfer of an assault weapon when a pre-October 1, 2013 purchase order is in place. There is nothing in writing even stating what will be considered a valid purchase order.

 

[Publius]

There is an issue as to whether a dealer can complete a sale/transfer of an assault weapon that is NOT in his possession on October 1, 2013. The AG has been asked for clarification on this, but who knows when we will receive clarification.

The MSP has addressed in writing the question of an FFL completing a sale/transfer of an assault weapon that is not in his possession on October 1, 2013. My emphasis below.

Licensing Division

Advisory

LD-FRS-13-004

July 29, 2013
2013 FIREARMS SAFETY ACT: ASSUALT WEAPONS AND COPY CAT WEAPONS

[...]
Can I sell an assault weapon to a Maryland resident if the firearm is ordered from a distributor/manufacturer prior to October 1, 2013?Yes, CR 4-303(b)(3) provides that, “A person who . . . has a purchase order for that resident , or completed an application to purchase an assault long gun or a copycat weapon before October 1, 2013 may: (i) possess and transport the assault long gun or copycat weapon . . . “ Accordingly, a firearms dealer may sell, and a citizen may purchase and possess, an assault long gun or copycat weapon if a purchase order was issued on behalf of that citizen for the weapon before October 1,2013, even where the dealer receives the weapon after October 1, 2013.

 

[fabsroman]

The MSP has addressed in writing the question of an FFL completing a sale/transfer of an assault weapon that is not in his possession on October 1, 2013. My emphasis below.

Licensing Division

Advisory

LD-FRS-13-004

July 29, 2013
2013 FIREARMS SAFETY ACT: ASSUALT WEAPONS AND COPY CAT WEAPONS

[...]
Can I sell an assault weapon to a Maryland resident if the firearm is ordered from a distributor/manufacturer prior to October 1, 2013?Yes, CR 4-303(b)(3) provides that, “A person who . . . has a purchase order for that resident , or completed an application to purchase an assault long gun or a copycat weapon before October 1, 2013 may: (i) possess and transport the assault long gun or copycat weapon . . . “ Accordingly, a firearms dealer may sell, and a citizen may purchase and possess, an assault long gun or copycat weapon if a purchase order was issued on behalf of that citizen for the weapon before October 1,2013, even where the dealer receives the weapon after October 1, 2013.

Yep, I have already read this. Still do not feel comfortable with it until the AG says the same thing.

Now, where in there does it say that an FFL may transfer the firearm to a person that has a purchase order in place with say Les Baer, JP Rifles, Noveske, etc. that does not go through the dealer? For instance, can a person buy an Assault Long Gun or Copycat weapon on gunbroker on September 30, 2013 and then have an FFL transfer it to him afterward? Can a person place an order with Les Baer for an Assault Long Gun or Copycat weapon and have a FFL complete the transfer after October 1, 2013? Does the purchase order have to be submitted by the FFL?

I know what MSP is saying, but I also know that one day it is saying SBR's and NFA items in total will not be touched, another day it is saying NO SBR's whatsoever, and another day it is saying SBR's are fine as long as they are not of a specific Assault Long Gun or a copycat weapon. Not only that, but one day it is saying it is fine to complete a pre-October 1 AR-15 lower into a complete rifle, the next day it is saying that those pre-October 1 AR-15 lowers cannot be completed into a complete AR-15, and the next they are saying that a per-October lower can be completed into a complete AR-15 or an SBR AR-15 should you so desire.

So, color me skeptical about what the final interpretation on this is going to be. Hence, I am getting everything done before October 1, 2013. Ordering my final handgun, a 2011, tomorrow. Then, on October 1, 2013 I will be taking retainers for anybody that needs counsel over this stuff.

 

[Inigoes]

Why does the AG have to say anything?

The purchase rule is in the law.

 

[fabsroman]

Why does the AG have to say anything?

The purchase rule is in the law.

Md Code Crim Law 4–303.
(a) Except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, a person may not:
(1) transport an assault [pistol] WEAPON into the State; or
(2) possess, sell, offer to sell, transfer, purchase, or receive an assault
[pistol] WEAPON.
(b) (1) A person who lawfully possessed an assault pistol before June 1, 1994, and who registered the assault pistol with the Secretary of State Police efore
August 1, 1994, may:
[(1)] (I) continue to possess AND TRANSPORT the assault pistol; or
[(2)] (II) while carrying a court order requiring the surrender of the
assault pistol, transport the assault pistol directly to the law enforcement unit, barracks, or station if the person has notified the law enforcement unit, barracks, or station that the person is transporting the assault pistol in accordance with a court order and the assault pistol is unloaded.
(2) A LICENSED FIREARMS DEALER MAY CONTINUE TO POSSESS, SELL, OFFER FOR SALE, OR TRANSFER AN ASSAULT LONG GUN OR A COPYCAT WEAPON THAT THE LICENSED FIREARMS DEALER LAWFULLY POSSESSED ON OR BEFORE OCTOBER 1, 2013.

Now, show me where the exception is that allows a licensed firearms dealer to continue to possess, sell, offer for sale, or transfer an assault long gun or copycat weapon that he/she did not possess on or before October 1, 2013? I believe the only exception is if the dealer is selling/transferring it to somebody out of state. What am I overlooking that allows a dealer to transfer or complete the sale on, an Assault Weapon or Copycat weapon that the dealer did not have in his/her possession on or before October 1, 2013?

 

[fabsroman]

Why does the AG have to say anything?

The purchase rule is in the law.

Let me help you out some, but still nothing I see that allows the transfer to a Maryland resident post October 1, 2013 if the assault weapon or copycat weapon is not in the dealer's possession on October 1, 2013:

Md Code Crim Law 4-302

4–302.
This subtitle does not apply to:
(1) if acting within the scope of official business, personnel of the
United States government or a unit of that government, members of the armed forces of the United States or of the National Guard, law enforcement personnel of the State or a local unit in the State, OR A RAILROAD POLICE OFFICER AUTHORIZED UNDER TITLE 3 OF THE PUBLIC SAFETY ARTICLE OR 49 U.S.C. § 28101;

(2) a firearm modified to render it permanently inoperative;

(3) POSSESSION, IMPORTATION, MANUFACTURE, RECEIPT FOR
MANUFACTURE, SHIPMENT FOR MANUFACTURE, STORAGE, purchases, sales, and transport to or by a licensed firearms dealer or manufacturer who is:
(i) providing or servicing an assault WEAPON or detachable magazine for a law enforcement unit or for personnel exempted under item (1) of this section; or
(ii) acting to sell or transfer an assault WEAPON or detachable magazine to a licensed firearm dealer in another state OR TO AN INDIVIDUAL PURCHASER IN ANOTHER STATE THROUGH A LICENSED FIREARMS DEALER; OR
(III) ACTING TO RETURN TO A CUSTOMER IN ANOTHER STATE AN ASSAULT WEAPON TRANSFERRED TO THE LICENSED FIREARMS DEALER OR MANUFACTURER UNDER THE TERMS OF A WARRANTY OR FOR REPAIR;

(4) organizations that are required or authorized by federal law
governing their specific business or activity to maintain assault WEAPONS and applicable ammunition and detachable magazines;

(5) the receipt of an assault WEAPON or detachable magazine by inheritance, AND POSSESSION OF THE INHERITED ASSAULT WEAPON OR DETACHABLE MAGAZINE, if the decedent lawfully possessed the assault WEAPON OR DETACHABLE MAGAZINE AND THE PERSON INHERITING THE ASSAULT WEAPON OR DETACHABLE MAGAZINE IS NOT OTHERWISE DISQUALIFIED FROM POSSESSING A REGULATED FIREARM;

(6) the receipt of an assault [pistol] WEAPON or detachable magazine
by a personal representative of an estate for purposes of exercising the powers and duties of a personal representative of an estate;

(7) POSSESSION BY A PERSON WHO IS RETIRED IN GOOD STANDING FROM SERVICE WITH A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF THE STATE OR A LOCAL UNIT IN THE STATE AND IS NOT OTHERWISE PROHIBITED FROM RECEIVING AN ASSAULT WEAPON OR DETACHABLE MAGAZINE IF:
(I) THE ASSAULT WEAPON OR DETACHABLE MAGAZINE IS
SOLD OR TRANSFERRED TO THE PERSON BY THE LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY
ON RETIREMENT; OR
(II) THE ASSAULT WEAPON OR DETACHABLE MAGAZINE WAS PURCHASED OR OBTAINED BY THE PERSON FOR OFFICIAL USE WITH THE LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY BEFORE RETIREMENT;

(8) POSSESSION OR TRANSPORT BY AN EMPLOYEE OF AN ARMORED CAR COMPANY IF THE INDIVIDUAL IS ACTING WITHIN THE SCOPE OF EMPLOYMENT AND HAS A PERMIT ISSUED UNDER TITLE 5, SUBTITLE 3 OF THE PUBLIC SAFETY ARTICLE; OR

(9) POSSESSION, RECEIPT, AND TESTING BY, OR SHIPPING TO OR
FROM:
(I) AN ISO 17025 ACCREDITED, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF JUSTICE–APPROVED BALLISTICS TESTING LABORATORY; OR
(II) A FACILITY OR ENTITY THAT MANUFACTURES OR PROVIDES RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT TESTING, ANALYSIS, OR ENGINEERING FOR PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT OR VEHICLE PROTECTION SYSTEMS.


The part in bold is the only thing I can find relating to this subtitle not applying to firearms dealers, and it does not provide an exception for transferring an assault weapon or copycat weapon to a Maryland resident that was not in the firearm dealer's possession pre-October 1, 2013 IF the Maryland resident has a purchase order for said assault weapon or copycat weapon. It provides no exception whatsoever for transferring/selling an assault weapon or copycat weapon to a Maryland resident post October 1, 2013.