Decision in Kachalsky LOSS

[krucam]

What have we here?? Nothing on the CA2 Docket, nothing came up in a Docket Search at supremecourt.gov , however....

http://reason.com/blog/2013/01/08/restrictions-on-weapons-carrying-gets-a

Restrictions on Weapons Carrying Gets a Step Closer to Supreme Court with Certiorari Petition in Kachalsky Case



h/t to illinoiscarry
http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=27454&st=30

 

[2ndsupporter]

Now this is good stuff. My only concern is we have no true circuit split yet. Keep fingers crossed Woolard isn't overturned.

 

[AliasNeo07]

Now this is good stuff. My only concern is we have no true circuit split yet. Keep fingers crossed Woolard isn't overturned.

The IL ruling isnt a split?

 

[krucam]

The IL ruling isnt a split?

IL ruled against a blanket carry ban. NY ruled in favor of Legislative discretion. Close but not a clear split.

Woollard would compliment Kachalsky nicely...

 

[Haides]

Was the window to file for cert in Kachalsky close to expiring, or was Gura not holding out for a decision in Woollard like some of us thought?

 

[krucam]

Was the window to file for cert in Kachalsky close to expiring, or was Gura not holding out for a decision in Woollard like some of us thought?

http://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=1954582&postcount=26

90 days from the 11/27 ruling for cert petition. Plenty of time left on that clock.

Since Gura is counsel in Kachalsky and in Woollard, and didn't wait longer, I can only surmise he's looking for a shot with the current set of Justices. Then again, I could be way off...

 

[Haides]

So if cert is granted before CA4 rules, what happens to Woollard? Will they wait until the SC rules in order to give a decision?

 

[krucam]

So if cert is granted before CA4 rules, what happens to Woollard? Will they wait until the SC rules in order to give a decision?

Highly likely. If the big court takes a Carry case such as this, many cases will come to a halt.

 

[Haides]

To me it seems kind of desperate to file cert without without waiting for a decision in Woollard, unless he expects a defeat in Woollard and doesn't want the CA4 to strengthen the case against him.

Although, I hadn't considered this:

I can only surmise he's looking for a shot with the current set of Justices.

Maybe desperation is necessary now. Regardless, he's the expert, not me, so I'm not going to argue.

 

[press1280]

To me it seems kind of desperate to file cert without without waiting for a decision in Woollard, unless he expects a defeat in Woollard and doesn't want the CA4 to strengthen the case against him.

Although, I hadn't considered this:


Maybe desperation is necessary now. Regardless, he's the expert, not me, so I'm not going to argue.

The actual split may happen at any time, in which case we know Gura will make SCOTUS aware. I'm actually thinking Peruta/Richards/Baker is more likely a win than Wollard.
He's definitely wanting to get the ball rolling sooner rather than later.

 

[Al Norris]

Just in case somebody missed it, here is the link to the petition, courtesy of Gene Hoffman of CalGuns Foundation: http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/kachalsky/Kachalsky-Cert-Petition-2013-01-08.pdf

 

[krucam]

Just in case somebody missed it, here is the link to the petition, courtesy of Gene Hoffman of CalGuns Foundation: http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/kachalsky/Kachalsky-Cert-Petition-2013-01-08.pdf

Damn the torpedoes. In Gura we Trust...

 

[wjackcooper]

"Damn the torpedoes. In Gura we Trust... "

Good one!

Regards
Jack

 

[jrosenberger]

http://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=1954582&postcount=26

90 days from the 11/27 ruling for cert petition. Plenty of time left on that clock.

Since Gura is counsel in Kachalsky and in Woollard, and didn't wait longer, I can only surmise he's looking for a shot with the current set of Justices. Then again, I could be way off...

Maybe the en banc petition in Moore forced his hand? Filing the cert petition in Kachalsky before the Moore opinion is depublished if en banc is granted?

 

[Patrick]

To me it seems kind of desperate to file cert without without waiting for a decision in Woollard, unless he expects a defeat in Woollard and doesn't want the CA4 to strengthen the case against him.

Although, I hadn't considered this:


Maybe desperation is necessary now. Regardless, he's the expert, not me, so I'm not going to argue.

Ther is strong chance ca4 is going to sit on Woollard a while. Also, should they rule any time during the cert process - which could take as long as this summer - then they can file a brief pointing to that opinion. In other words, there is no need to wait for Woollard because it will play in when it happens no matter what.

If you do the math, filing now leaves open the door to completing petition process before the end of this term. Wait and the process extends into Fall. It's tight but possible. I think they have until about May go get it done. Assume 30 days to respond, 14 for petitioner, 14 for another response and 30 days for solicitor general. That's twelve weeks. Add some additional delays and a conference relist. Four months.

Tight, but possible. I think.

Lean on esquapellate here. He will correct my math.

EDIT: Highlighting that I am suggesting this filing will beat the deadline to get cert decided. That means we will likely know IF the Supreme Court will hear the case. It won't actually decide the case. That would almost surely wait until June 2014.

 

[Haides]

Ther is strong chance ca4 is going to sit on Woollard a while. Also, should they rule any time during the cert process - which could take as long as this summer - then they can file a brief pointing to that opinion. In other words, there is no need to wait for Woollard because it will play in when it happens no matter what.

If you do the math, filing now leaves open the door to completing petition process before the end of this term. Wait and the process extends into Fall. It's tight but possible. I think they have until about May go get it done. Assume 30 days to respond, 14 for petitioner, 14 for another response and 30 days for solicitor general. That's twelve weeks. Add some additional delays and a conference relist. Four months.

Tight, but possible. I think.

Lean on esquapellate here. He will correct my math.

And that is exactly why your opinion is entitled to more weight than mine

Thank you sir.

 

[esqappellate]

This is a really good cert petition! That doesn't mean it will be granted. But it strikes just the right notes. I agree on the need to bypass a petition for rehearing and file early. It's a gamble. If the Court doesn't take Kachalsky, the courts, including the Fourth, may take it as a green light.

 

[Patrick]

This is a really good cert petition! That doesn't mean it will be granted. But it strikes just the right notes. I agree on the need to bypass a petition for rehearing and file early. It's a gamble. If the Court doesn't take Kachalsky, the courts, including the Fourth, may take it as a green light.

In for a penny, in for a pound...

 

[esqappellate]

Ther is strong chance ca4 is going to sit on Woollard a while. Also, should they rule any time during the cert process - which could take as long as this summer - then they can file a brief pointing to that opinion. In other words, there is no need to wait for Woollard because it will play in when it happens no matter what.

If you do the math, filing now leaves open the door to completing petition process before the end of this term. Wait and the process extends into Fall. It's tight but possible. I think they have until about May go get it done. Assume 30 days to respond, 14 for petitioner, 14 for another response and 30 days for solicitor general. That's twelve weeks. Add some additional delays and a conference relist. Four months.

Tight, but possible. I think.

Lean on esquapellate here. He will correct my math.

A decision on the merits is not really possible this Term, even with the early filing. 30 days for NY to respond (they could seek an extension but let's assume that they won't). The court won't wait for a reply at the cert stage, so it goes to conference 2 or 3 weeks after the opp is filed, so let's assume opp is filed ~ 2/8/13. Earliest Friday Conference the petition could be considered is March 1 (slim chance for Feb. 22), and after that March 15. If cert is granted, 45 days to file opening brief (mid to late April), 30 days after that for the response (late May or early June). See Rule 25 SCT Rules. A reply is optional but must be filed not later than 2:00pm, a week before argument. The last argument day this Term is April 24. The only way this could be argued this Term is if the Court accelerated the schedule, which they will do but not really that often or to the extent you would need to do so here.

That said, we likely will have a decision on whether to grant the petition this Term. The likely conference for this petition is March 1, the last Friday conference this Term is June 20. The SG sat out McDonald and may sit out this case. Either way, the SG is very unlikely to intervene with an amicus brief at the cert stage unless the Court requests the views of the United States. I don't see the Court doing that here, as federal law and policy are not at issue. Even then, standard policy of the SG's office is that the SG will file its views in time for the cert petition to be decided this Term. So I am quite sure we will have a cert grant or denial this Term, probably in March. That leaves plenty of time for briefs to be filed for an argument in October or November.

As to the 4th Circuit in Woollard, I tend to doubt that they will wait for the cert petition, but they would likely wait if the petition was granted, UNLESS they want to have their opinion considered by the SCT in deciding Kachalsky. They can do anything they want.

 

[esqappellate]

In for a penny, in for a pound...

Yup. Kachalsky is an excellent test case.