Form 1 Suppressors

[honda53s]

Lately, I have been thinking about filling out a form 1 to build a suppressor for my AR in .223. I am wondering if there are any good books out there to read on the step by step process of building one. Also, is there a list of materials that I would need to get after I get the form 1 back? I have all sorts of machinery including metal lathes, drill presses and have access to a CNC machine. I just want to figure out what I am getting into before sending a form 1 in.

 

[Markp]

The biggest challenge is maintaining concentricity with the inside of the barrel. Which means the threads need to be concentric to the inside diameter of the barrel. If you are willing to accept a little more noise, then you can get away with a larger diameter hole, which will provide you with more margin for error.

There are plenty of pictures on the internet... the key to the whole process is maintaining that perfect alignment with inside of the barrel (and allowing for the heat of expansion). You don't want to try shooting a .223 bullet through a .224 hole, you'll likely blow apart the silencer when a bullet clips the edge of the end cap.

 

[4g64loser]

Honda,

I moonlight for an 07/sot and make rimfire cans there and we've done some subgun (designed for MACs) cans. Making cans, as Markp states, is all about concentricity of bullet path to bore.

Much like making a muzzle brake, the suppressors for most "smaller bore" calibers (30 and under) seem to have a baffle hole sweet spot around .020 to .030 over groove diameter for disc baffles (cheapest thing to make for rifle cans as they are generally made of stainless steel).

If you have access to a CNC machine, you can make a ported K baffle design (its a PITA to do by manual lathe and mill!)

My experience with rifle cans comes from analysis of the examples I handle, clean, and use at work as well as study of other shooters' equipment. I HAVE NOT made a rifle can on my own, so please take my opinions with a grain of salt.

 

[clandestine]

I did the math and it would take me about 30 labor hours to make a single form 1 suppressor. With my main job I can make $900.00 in the same amount of time so I decided to buy something that already made by professionals (YHM Titanium) than make a home made and heavier marginally efficient suppressor.

 

[4g64loser]

Chad,

you are 100% correct in that it is NOT cost effective to make your own rifle cans (unless you are making LOTS of them for sale on CNC equipment, and that's not Form 1 territory anymore). I think OP, like me when I started playing, just wants the satisfaction of making something himself. If he wants to bust his cherry on a rifle can, he's packing a pair of brass ones (i did .22s!!!) and I salute him for trying.

You, as a gunsmith and lover of custom firearms, probably understand better than most the satisfaction that comes from using a tool that you made yourself.


Honda53,

I don't want to be a wet blanket (because I think everyone should work toward a better understanding of the tools they use) but if this is your first time, PLEASE seek the supervision of someone that has done this. It will save you a lot of material and headaches. I have a couple of very experienced men to thank for what little bit I have been able to learn.

If you want an effective rifle can, as Chad says, buy one. I'm not trying to tell you that you can't make one, but it is easier and cheaper to purchase. If, as I suspect, you just want the satisfaction of making your own, I still recommend starting with a rimfire or pistol caliber (but i'm a weenie like that).

 

[clandestine]

Chad,

you are 100% correct in that it is NOT cost effective to make your own rifle cans (unless you are making LOTS of them for sale on CNC equipment, and that's not Form 1 territory anymore). I think OP, like me when I started playing, just wants the satisfaction of making something himself. If he wants to bust his cherry on a rifle can, he's packing a pair of brass ones (i did .22s!!!) and I salute him for trying.

You, as a gunsmith and lover of custom firearms, probably understand better than most the satisfaction that comes from using a tool that you made yourself.


Honda53,

I don't want to be a wet blanket (because I think everyone should work toward a better understanding of the tools they use) but if this is your first time, PLEASE seek the supervision of someone that has done this. It will save you a lot of material and headaches. I have a couple of very experienced men to thank for what little bit I have been able to learn.

If you want an effective rifle can, as Chad says, buy one. I'm not trying to tell you that you can't make one, but it is easier and cheaper to purchase. If, as I suspect, you just want the satisfaction of making your own, I still recommend starting with a rimfire or pistol caliber (but i'm a weenie like that).

I agree and I think you made excellent points.

 

[ericoak]

Sounds like an ambitious first build. Wondering why you want to d one instead of buying one? I feel like after the time invested you will spend more time/money to have a can that doesn't perform as well. If you are doing it just for the fun of it that is different.

Never mind the pros above me already covered it.

 

[midcountyg]

Keep in mind the high gas pressure and heat involved. Pistol calibers and rimfire are much easier to construct, and safer if they fail. I have built a rifle can, and it works great, but I started with rimfire and worked my way up. Cost wise you won't save anything if you factor time, but it can be done. You will not find a good step by step of a modern suppressor, but you can search out baffle designs. Stamped M baffles are a good choice for 223. Your blast baffle should be a thicker high grade stainless or iconel and you will have to research the correct volume for Your blast chamber. Concentrity is key and proper materials and design are critical as well. I don't recommend a rifle can for a first build, but if you do it do your homework first.

 

[mikec]

Keep in mind the high gas pressure and heat involved. Pistol calibers and rimfire are much easier to construct, and safer if they fail. I have built a rifle can, and it works great, but I started with rimfire and worked my way up. Cost wise you won't save anything if you factor time, but it can be done. You will not find a good step by step of a modern suppressor, but you can search out baffle designs. Stamped M baffles are a good choice for 223. Your blast baffle should be a thicker high grade stainless or iconel and you will have to research the correct volume for Your blast chamber. Concentrity is key and proper materials and design are critical as well. I don't recommend a rifle can for a first build, but if you do it do your homework first.

Ever think of offering a class, "Legal home made suppressor making 101"?

First class, explain the concepts and assist people filling out their Form 1.



Second class, a few months later... Materials selection and basic design.

Final class, review designs and inspection and range testing.

 

[midcountyg]

Ever think of offering a class, "Legal home made suppressor making 101"?

First class, explain the concepts and assist people filling out their Form 1.



Second class, a few months later... Materials selection and basic design.

Final class, review designs and inspection and range testing.

Lol you may be on to something.

 

[4g64loser]

midcounty expands on some very important safety concerns.

My stuff usually gets steel or stainless blast baffles (even my rimfires, in which i like to use steel baffles to handle constant full auto and HMR/WMR duty).

Midcounty---you are onto something offering "suppressor basics" courses. people are interested in such things. i am not an 07 (i just work for one) so i do not consider myself qualified to supervise OP's project. Someone in your position would be better suited to this. If you offer it, I would bet you fill the classroom easily. People ask me questions in this area constantly at the shop but I have to give them the standard "Approved form 1 before doing anything" advice.

Chad--I'm just a monkey that likes to tinker. I've been helped along by people that have many years in the trade and for that opportunity I am very thankful.

On a general note, it really sucks that "suppressor parts" are a felony. It kills individual experimentation that might otherwise result in better designs being available. Not every physicist/home machinist has a manufacturing FFL...... But this is a moot point under current laws.

 

[midcountyg]

Hmmm, if a group were to agree to one caliber and design that they all want, all get approved form ones, and then meet up we may be able to do a group build. Just an idea I would have to really think about it before committing though.

 

[ericoak]

Might as well send the sbr form 1 at the same time, those shorter uppers balance better and aren't so long.

 

[4g64loser]

Midcounty,

I'm just spitballing (i already work for an 07, so this isn't relevant to me) but not even a group build. How about a night of instruction on paperwork requirements and suppressor history/theory. Strictly speaking, the form 1 is on the individual with the intent of a "homebrew" but I know several people have approached me concerned that they will "waste" a tax stamp by being locked into a set of dimensions and not knowing what they are doing in advance. they don't want to make a nonfunctional (or, worse, self-destructing) item. Maybe offer an information-only course???

again, i'm not trying to tell anyone what to do or how to run a railroad, just restating what seems to be a recurring line of questioning that I get at "work".

 

[honda53s]

Honda53,

I don't want to be a wet blanket (because I think everyone should work toward a better understanding of the tools they use) but if this is your first time, PLEASE seek the supervision of someone that has done this. It will save you a lot of material and headaches. I have a couple of very experienced men to thank for what little bit I have been able to learn.

If you want an effective rifle can, as Chad says, buy one. I'm not trying to tell you that you can't make one, but it is easier and cheaper to purchase. If, as I suspect, you just want the satisfaction of making your own, I still recommend starting with a rimfire or pistol caliber (but i'm a weenie like that).

I have a pretty decent understanding of the CNC machine as I have made motorcycle side cases,braces and other misc parts for my race bikes. I am by no means an expert but my dad is. He uses a CNC machine very often in his line of work. I am more interested in the materials that are used and specs. Thats why I asked if there are any detailed books. With getting cut hours at my current job and now I am starting to venture into the car restoration business with my dad, I will have plenty of time. I would mainly just be doing this for fun and to say the fact that I did one by myself. I might start with a .22. I appreciate the advice.

 

[midcountyg]

Midcounty,

I'm just spitballing (i already work for an 07, so this isn't relevant to me) but not even a group build. How about a night of instruction on paperwork requirements and suppressor history/theory. Strictly speaking, the form 1 is on the individual with the intent of a "homebrew" but I know several people have approached me concerned that they will "waste" a tax stamp by being locked into a set of dimensions and not knowing what they are doing in advance. they don't want to make a nonfunctional (or, worse, self-destructing) item. Maybe offer an information-only course???

again, i'm not trying to tell anyone what to do or how to run a railroad, just restating what seems to be a recurring line of questioning that I get at "work".

That is pretty much what I had in mind. I could help with paper trail, volunteer a working design, and detail the theory and materials.

 

[honda53s]

That is pretty much what I had in mind. I could help with paper trail, volunteer a working design, and detail the theory and materials.

I would be interested in this

 

[midcountyg]

Get some people on board and we can get something together. I have a demo of the 556 can I built, and it can be seen and heard.

 

[Kingjamez]

I already have an approved form 1 for a .223 can.... just haven't built it yet. I'd be interested in learning from mid county.

-Jim

 

[Indiana Jones]

Get some people on board and we can get something together. I have a demo of the 556 can I built, and it can be seen and heard.

I'm in with honda53s and I know of another guy too.